The Good Sec Thread(tm)

[btek]

long winded post

All those other guides aren't there to make people "good". They're there so people know how to do stuff but they don't really say anything on utilization of those newfound skills except for maybe tips. You're told how to disassemble reinforced walls but no where does it explicitly state where/where not to disassemble. All jobs have the basic premise of using your tools at your convenience with the expectation that you'll follow the rules.

The same goes for security. You should only need to know what your job entails and the rudimentary knowledge of what you're supposed to do. There's no need to turn the sec team into a rigorously trained force or whatever. Our sec teams are fine as they are: the really bad ones are jobbanned/banned and the ones who make mistakes learn to not make those stupid mistakes while also getting acclimated to the spirit of goonstation.

My other question is: how are people going to respond to this? Would they really care to listen? The things here are just as valued as tips. All sec bans are about killing prisoners, bad brig times, stripping of prisoners etc. etc. No one is going to care about these new tips unless they're actually bannable doctrines to follow. If someone wants to kill a traitor in revenge for killing him, who's going to hold it against him when he does? Certainly no one's going to ban him. There are a few good points in this thread, but the really little details are going to be worthless when it comes down to actual gameplay. The sec officer is going to go for whatever feels right to him/her.

But whatever, paradigm shifting isn't really working here and I haven't really read much of the sec thread /wiki page except a quick skimming session.

P.S. I got my nameban removed and haven't been naughty recently.
P.P.S. I never liked pushover sec because it's not as fun. i prefer the groups of unpredictably dangerous thugs who know how to have a good time. Your accusation is understandable though so I don't hold it against you

[Shoddy]

I fed a prisoner Unstable Mutagen that a chemist gave me because he wouldn't stop being shit! Now he's too busy having epilepsy and blindness to be shit! I didn't beat the shit out of him so it's okay, right?? I'm a good Sec Mans, right???

And then the entire rest of the world goes "no, that's not alright, you're an awful person." Then you move onto Discount Dan's, but whoops, that can cause disabilities too! Okay, fine, now I'll just take some sleep toxin and inject that, the sleep mimics brig time! But no, that's awful too because inevitably someone who's sleeping gets their shit robbed before they can wake up! But none of these had me laying a finger on the person, why is it bad???

Here is why these punishments are bad: Discount Dans is basically a high potency poison that can kill you dead if you have enough of it. Unstable mutagen causes random mutations ( Blindness, Deafness, epilepsy, Autism (CANNOT BE FIXED)

Seriously, do i even need to describe to you why feeding someone poison and mutagens instead of a brig is bad?
There is a line on creative punishment and that is crossing it by a long shot.
Let me explain the rampant shittiness, by feeding unstable mutagen you are giving them a chance of being permanently crippled for the round, as well as having disability's which blind them and make them deaf so that they cannot even heal themselves.
This isn't remotely related to the law or justice, this is something an assistant would do to a chemist in a personal vendetta and possibly get banned for.

As with DD's, that shit is a highly potent poison, hell one spray of a heated soup can can instantly kill you.
I've had DD cups light me on fire and deeply poison me with harmful toxins until death, this is seriously some of the worst poisons you can put into someone.

So in summary: Not only are these punishments completely dumb and unbecoming of an officer, they harm people way more than a beating with a baton. These punishments put people's spaceman lives in danger as well as severely disabling them.
Seriously brig times aren't supposed to be fun, they are supposed to let someone cool down, serve their time, and gather their thoughts or organize a breakout.

Only occasionally is making a death maze a good idea, like a captain who tries to laser everyone for breaking his dumb new everyone is a cat and must meow like and calling it mutiny.

Hell i've gotten my hands dirty as an officer. but please don't outright poison or disable someone because you don't want to wait 10 seconds to get to the brig.

What you seem to be trying to do is say " Welp i didn't beat him half to death! i just poisoned him and disabled him and put him to sleep half to death!"

I see no difference except your methods are a lot more harmful.

I ain't got nothing personal, but damn those methods are P dumb. :|

PS: why would you even use any of these punishments to "simulate" brig time instead of using an actual brig timer?

[FrontlineAcrobat4]

Wow you guys seem to be really against an optional guide that was created months ago, not sure where you guys were when the idea of the guide was being created since you seem so against what is in it.

Really the guide was created so bad security officers could not claim that "UH UH UH IT DIDNT SAY IN THE WIKI YOU COULDNT DO THESE THINGS SO I DIDNT KNOW! SORRY!" If someone really wants to read the guide so they can improve themselves as player then good for them. I really think that the guide contains a good summary of Security so its fine for someone just starting to play security, has a good base to go off of so they can learn from experience without causing too much collateral damage.

[Coolguye]

I don't really have the time to reply right now because btek's post is pretty thoughtful and I'd like to give it proper discussion but holy fucking christ Shoddy I don't think you'd recognize sarcasm if it dickslapped you. Let me spell it out real quick: I was using those punishments as specific examples of how you can be shit while still following all of your half-cocked rules. This illustrates the problem with half-cocked rules. No you don't need to spell out why they're bad because we already talked about why they're bad on the first fucking page of this thread.

Your very own posts are proof as to why specific explanations and are needed. I don't know how much more clear you want it to be.

[Cogwerks]

Alright, knock it off with all the griping, this thread is getting pretty awful.

[Sundance]

[Klayboxx]

How be good as red man with sparkle stick :

poke bad men with stick but no hit
No hit with hard thing , is mean
if prisoner no hunger do not feed

[FrontlineAcrobat4]

Its not even getting mad at a video game,its getting mad at a guide on how to play a video game. the latter is pretty bad. :?

[Shoddy]

I don't really have the time to reply right now because btek's post is pretty thoughtful and I'd like to give it proper discussion but holy fucking christ Shoddy I don't think you'd recognize sarcasm if it dickslapped you. Let me spell it out real quick: I was using those punishments as specific examples of how you can be shit while still following all of your half-cocked rules. This illustrates the problem with half-cocked rules. No you don't need to spell out why they're bad because we already talked about why they're bad on the first fucking page of this thread.

Your very own posts are proof as to why specific explanations and are needed. I don't know how much more clear you want it to be.

Right, i've gotten over zealous, sorry.
My main point in all my post's is that people don't need extremely specific guides to know how to be a good officer, though i can understand the part about dipshit officers trying to justify their actions by twisting rules.

Though i don't really get how that rule was half cocked, you say that they leave huge gaps for situations and such, why do we assume that people are so dumb to believe that since poisoning someone isn't "technically" beating them, it's ok.

People are alot smarter than we give them credit for and many are just meanies.

Though i would like to apologize for that obvious lack of humor i presented when i replied, sorry man. :oops:

PS: this thread does not seem to be going anywhere but bad places at the moment. not gonna say anymore because i'd probably say what i mean wrong.

Perhaps i am wrong and people are dumb enough to believe that poisoning is better than beatings, in which case i'd be kind of shocked at how stupid people can be.

[CrowdControl]

Discount Dans is basically a high potency poison that can kill you dead if you have enough of it.

Alright this is enough over-hyping discount dans. The chemicals in DD that are deadly or harmful come in single digit doses, which means their effects are very short. The most dangerous thing that comes in any real potency is nicotine which is actually in all the DDs.

DDs are deadly in an extinguisher or a spray bottle though, but it has little to do with the actual contents so much as how many ingredients are in them. You can super-heat DDs by using the cup they come in. If you are hit with a super-heated substance it procs a small amount of burn damage and disfigures your face. But it does this for each substance you are splashed with.

That said force feeding prisoners any time, except a situation where you would execute them, is shitty. Real shitty and the nicotine addiction from DDs is enough to put it on the no-no list. Its far better to give the prisoner a choice. "Eat these noodles/drink this bottle of jack and your free to go immediately, else this murder is gonna cause you some serious brig time. "

[Dachshundofdoom]

Discount Dans is basically a high potency poison that can kill you dead if you have enough of it.

Alright this is enough over-hyping discount dans. The chemicals in DD that are deadly or harmful come in single digit doses, which means their effects are very short. The most dangerous thing that comes in any real potency is nicotine which is actually in all the DDs.

I once ate literally all the Dan's products out of one vending machine to test its lethality, without heating them, and yeah, the stuff is basically harmless apart from the nicotine (and the Nicotine addiction isn't exactly a Hyperzine addiction, I'm pretty sure it goes away on its own and doesn't do much to you). Some flavors are worse than others, but what makes Dan's deadly is the self-heater.

You still probably shouldn't feed it to them unless you're giving them a gimmicky choice like the one you said, though.

[Cogwerks]

why is this godawful thread still going

[Klayboxx]

why is this godawful thread still going

Because youre too much of a wAPPARENTLY I HATE BREATHING IDK

[FrontlineAcrobat4]

Quick someone post a photo of something stupid before the thread gets locked

[Klayboxx]

Breathing is overrated, yo