What is creepy?

[Crumplehat]

It's kind of a matter of how insistent they are on the subject. If it creeps you out, and you voice that objection while they're in the middle of it like "hey dude serious talk that's kind of weird can you cut it out or tone it down" and then they proceed to instead ramp it up, that's indicative of an unnecessary attachment to said behavior. Or if they do it every fucking round, and it's clearly not for a joke.

But yeah, like it's been said, the way it's always been handled is a pretty good meter to go by. More or less, just stay the course, y'know? You guys know what you're doing.

[DyssalC]

This thread has legitimately helped clear up a lot of things for me. I'm glad to see that, so long as it's in good fun with some slap-stick or comedic element and it avoids being perverted torture, that prolonged traitor killings/gimmicks are acceptable.

[popecrunch]

It's kind of a matter of how insistent they are on the subject. If it creeps you out, and you voice that objection while they're in the middle of it like "hey dude serious talk that's kind of weird can you cut it out or tone it down" and then they proceed to instead ramp it up, that's indicative of an unnecessary attachment to said behavior. Or if they do it every fucking round, and it's clearly not for a joke.

But yeah, like it's been said, the way it's always been handled is a pretty good meter to go by. More or less, just stay the course, y'know? You guys know what you're doing.

Bolded probably the best possible solution to the 'well what's creepy then' problem so far.

[SARazage]

I like the way the rules are worded now, just because it's easy and simple to read. The thing about the rules is I don't really see them as a code of conduct. I've looked at other server's rules and they're written in a language almost like legalese. It puts me off from playing on those servers because I'm not looking to be a rules lawyer, hunting for loopholes and figuring out what I can get away with. I want to relax and enjoy a stupid game about spacemen burning each other in industrial (accidents?) fires.

I think the rules here are more like a benchmark of the kind of players we want to play here. I've seen that whenever an issue comes up where the rules seem to be limiting someone's fun or someone has said the rules are too harsh, that person is usually shown to have been not the kind of player that is wanted here. I think, for my part, that the rules are fine as they are, they set a standard for the type of people I want here as a player. Ultimately, the players that have treated the rules as some kind of code of conduct where they have to reign in some sort of behavior have shown a lack of control (usually multiple times) because they're trying to be someone that they obviously don't want to be. There are other servers with much looser rules in these areas, diversity is a good thing.

[Natsumehack]

The Line I draw is when something stops being absurd like a bad B horror movie. Cutting a person limb off, and hitting them with it yelling "stop hitting yourself" Is just absurd and funny. The Moment they start acting real in-depth about what they are doing, putting detail into things that don't need it, and stop trying to be absurd is the point I begin to get the feeling they trying to creep me out.

Agreed.
The issue here isn't extreme torture. Torture, even extreme, can be funny in the right setting if it is done in a playful light slapstick kinda way. Fake mustache supervillain-esque escapades. There's literally nothing in-game that a traitor shouldn't be able to do for a pro-longed period of time, even if it is injecting someone with various poisons and medicines for 30 minutes to pro-long the agony, or sending someone through a mechanic portal that sends you through a gravity loops that tears you to pieces, all the while stopping at least once per cycle so the villian can step over and fart on you, or sleep-penning someone then chain-sawing off all their limbs before feeding their barely living torso to a man-eater.. That's all dandy (isn't it?). At least it should be for gimmicks. It is lame walking down a corridor and keeling over because of initro. Boring. (To a means of an end of course)
The pro-longed torture can be interesting for the victim, because in the end, they are alive. Tis' the nature of the game. Many escapades i've seen ends up with the victim making it out alive or cloned and the insane traitor cuffed or lynched because he ran a gimmick, and gimmicks are hard.
It is the context of the matter. Not what they do, but what they say and how they do it. The how they do it part really is down to how one emotes it. I dunno.. Am I wrong here?

A good example of extreme, yet absurd happened today.

When one of the admins broke Hands, they fix it for the round by replacing all hands with red chainsaws, and turning everyone into a traitor. What made it really over the top is when you got the new hands, both arms would fly off, and by the end the station was littered with dead bodies, chainsaws, and hands.

[Dauntasa]

In my opinion the creepy rule should be essentially entirely limited to sex stuff.

Like, there's creepy in a horror movie way, which is good and which I enjoy, and there's creepy in a gross sexual way, which i have no desire to encounter in my dumb bullshit space adventures.

if a traitor wants to rip out a dude's heart and eat it because he's going for the serial killer thing that's fine with me.

[Mofleaker]

I can understand wanting to censor this kinda stuff because it gets old and stupid real quickly

but I never understood why the goon servers are so hardcore PC, like we get up in arms about someone making a dick joke or something while we fart in eachother's faces and force eachother to drink piss. Either we're hypocrites or perhaps maybe nobody is actually offended by what hundreds of players have been permabanned for...

Same goes for racial slurs but thats a discussion for another day Basically i support less admin intervention

More to the point, this is creepy:

[FishDance]

Let me preface this by saying that the way that the "creepy rule" is being employed currently is absolutely perfect, and is the reason I keep playing this game, because the community that has spawned has amalgamated the humour of many, while leaving out the grimy and oft over-the-line humour that is usually associated with "dick jokes" and the like.

That being said, I think the issue with the rule is not it's content, but rather it's wording. Currently it's extremely vague, and I feel as though it can be taken the wrong way. What I think it means could be something drastically different from what someone else believes it means, as is the reason this thread is even here.

What I feel is important about the "creepy rule" is that it prevents sexual jokes, over-the-line humour where things are either too long or too odd to be funny any longer, and generally the fact that it creates a bar for the people of the servers, wherein they try to act like somewhat civil and tolerable people rather than complete degenerates. I don't necessarily think that these things are "creepy" per se, but I do agree that they don't belong here. In the end the wording is off, and while I can't come up with much of a better one, I feel like maybe expressing what the rule is currently preventing and doing well might aid in it's possible revision.

[popecrunch]

I've already covered why sexual material is covered under an absolute ban, and my understanding is that the reason the blanket ban extends to any mention of genitals or genital-related activity, even if it's not meant to be 'sexy', is that you can't determine how people parse any given communication. It only takes one soccer mom seeing the wrong parts of someone posting that horrible woody fanfic on the server before she calls her friend the lawyer in a fit of rage, and suddenly our server owner's life becomes more complicated than we'd like it to be.

And yeah I agree that 'creepy' is a really unuseful word for what we're trying to communicate, but given that this is the fourth page of the thread so far without a solution, I don't feel dumb that I wasn't able to come up with a better one.

And yeah, fff.jpg gets bandied about IRC a bunch. Simple distinction: IRC isn't the game server. The rules in the IRC channel are significantly less restrictive.

Racism isn't necessary on the servers simply because if you want to toss insults at someone, you can stand to be at least a little more creative and funny than dragging out the old tired 'ironic' racism. It doesn't come across as cool or edgy, it's just... unoriginal. That on top of being broadly offensive, the admin staff decided it shouldn't be allowed here. Get creative with your insults! It doesn't take a lot of effort, the other day I called someone a malodorous model train enthusiast, and their reaction was hilarious. That took like four seconds to come up with, so you could probably blow it out of the water if you tried even slightly.

[Dauntasa]

I've already covered why sexual material is covered under an absolute ban, and my understanding is that the reason the blanket ban extends to any mention of genitals or genital-related activity, even if it's not meant to be 'sexy', is that you can't determine how people parse any given communication. It only takes one soccer mom seeing the wrong parts of someone posting that horrible woody fanfic on the server before she calls her friend the lawyer in a fit of rage, and suddenly our server owner's life becomes more complicated than we'd like it to be.

And yeah I agree that 'creepy' is a really unuseful word for what we're trying to communicate, but given that this is the fourth page of the thread so far without a solution, I don't feel dumb that I wasn't able to come up with a better one.

yeah but i'm pretty sure anyone who'd call a lawyer about woody's got wood would probably end up calling them after they wander into the bar and see 2 naked dudes beating each other to death with severed arms and then eating the loser

I'd say the creepy rule should just be changed to "no sex stuff" because 99% of the time that's what it actually means

[popecrunch]

Yeah, I think it can be simplified.

"DON'T BE A CREEP: Sexual material, no matter how ironic or non-serious, is absolutely not tolerated here. If it involves your genitals, or anything else that's excessively creepy, it doesn't belong. Please note that what is 'creepy' to the admin staff or the playerbase at large might not match your particular definiton of 'creepy', so erring on the side of caution might be a good idea. When in doubt, ask - IRC is perfect for this, the forums also work."

That covers sex stuff, with a hanger-on of 'other' extreme creepiness (example: the torture example above, which has actually been witnessed on the servers time to time), and a nod that not everyone's going to agree on what creepy means, and that ultimately, it's up to the admins.

How's that?

[Spy_Guy]

Yeah, I think it can be simplified.

"DON'T BE A CREEP: Sexual material, no matter how ironic or non-serious, is absolutely not tolerated here. If it involves your genitals, or anything else that's excessively creepy, it doesn't belong. Please note that what is 'creepy' to the admin staff or the playerbase at large might not match your particular definiton of 'creepy', so erring on the side of caution might be a good idea. When in doubt, ask - IRC is perfect for this, the forums also work."

That covers sex stuff, with a hanger-on of 'other' extreme creepiness (example: the torture example above, which has actually been witnessed on the servers time to time), and a nod that not everyone's going to agree on what creepy means, and that ultimately, it's up to the admins.

How's that?

That seems pretty spot-on to me.

[Lantern]

Yeah, I think it can be simplified.

"DON'T BE A CREEP: Sexual material, no matter how ironic or non-serious, is absolutely not tolerated here. If it involves your genitals, or anything else that's excessively creepy, it doesn't belong. Please note that what is 'creepy' to the admin staff or the playerbase at large might not match your particular definiton of 'creepy', so erring on the side of caution might be a good idea. When in doubt, ask - IRC is perfect for this, the forums also work."

That covers sex stuff, with a hanger-on of 'other' extreme creepiness (example: the torture example above, which has actually been witnessed on the servers time to time), and a nod that not everyone's going to agree on what creepy means, and that ultimately, it's up to the admins.

How's that?

I think that's the best solution.

[Dauntasa]

You can probably fix the whole thing by getting rid of the word "creepy" as the actual rule.

If we just ran "no sexual content" then that's job done - creepy involves so many different facets of different things.

yeah, it'd be much simpler like that

plus if someone does end up acting out their weird torture fantasies and gets banned for it nobody's going to pipe up with "woah woah woah, nowhere in this long spiel of weird shit does he mention his junk, unban this man immediately"

[Natsumehack]

You can probably fix the whole thing by getting rid of the word "creepy" as the actual rule.

If we just ran "no sexual content" then that's job done - creepy involves so many different facets of different things.

That's more or less the problem with using board words, you covers so many things, we have problems like we have now. Using the word Creepy is just bushing giant strokes of grey paint over the Painting that is the Rules.

I do agree we should remove Creepy as a rule.