Hydroponics Feedback

[Anticheese]

Make it a george melon.

[ISaidNo]

Okay, so what i've taken away from this so far:

- Extract mushrooms for seeds
- Hints for mutation boundaries
- Different reagents do stuff to different plants (?)
- Different kinds of nutrients/fertilizer like TGstation has it
- Pollination and/or splicing rather than the Gene Manipulator
- No more tiny-ass seed sprites
- Seed processor/manipulator hand tool

I'm not going to do hybrid plants since that'd be kind of awful to sprite and code for honestly. Mostly what I need to figure out is how to do this whole pollination/splicing idea, since it sounds interesting.

[Val]

Okay, so what i've taken away from this so far:
- Extract mushrooms for seeds

Yes, although they're really more like spores?

- Hints for mutation boundaries

How would this work? I haven't a clue as to what this would imply in terms of game use.

- Different reagents do stuff to different plants (?)

I think this idea is more of an excuse to incorporate hobochem into hydroponics or make certain mutations rely on help from chemistry, such as using napalm or similar to mutate regular tomatoes into explosive ones.

I think it was mentioned that you'd need to up a plant's endurance trait in order to get it to accept horrible reagents like welding fuel or plasma and not die because plants do not work that way. I don't really like this idea though. Thalermite-laced lemons anyone?

- Different kinds of nutrients/fertilizer like TGstation has it

Yes, with different kinds of nutrients having a profound effect on the plant that receives a specific type, as mentioned. Actually, a complete nutrition system would be kind of neat, although it'd make hydroponics a tad trickier to operate.

I find it kind of strange that your plants never die of malnutrition or infestation, but then suddenly drying up from a lack of water. Adding a new mechanic where you're forced to also feed your plants and perhaps protect them from weeds/pests would be a deal more fun in my opinion.

That and something about having chem get new recipes specifically to create these new fertilizer types. I'm planning on elaborating even more on this soon, if needed. Also, the compost cart will be massively more important this way.

- Pollination and/or splicing rather than the Gene Manipulator

Definitely this. Perhaps refurbish the Gene Manipulator into a big-ass plant analyzer that tells you exactly what this plant is capable of being, in addition to being a cross-pollination machine?

- No more tiny-ass seed sprites

Perhaps vending a packet of seeds instead of an individual one would be better? Though it'd be kind of silly if we replaced the seeds that come out of harvested plants with packets... blow the "seed" sprites up by 75% and it'll be fine, I guess. If we make them too big, they might look a bit odd. Just big enough to click on consistently and not be a pain in the ass.

- Seed processor/manipulator hand tool

This is nice too.

I'm not going to do hybrid plants since that'd be kind of awful to sprite and code for honestly. Mostly what I need to figure out is how to do this whole pollination/splicing idea, since it sounds interesting.

I'm not sure how to elaborate on this particular regard any further. I guess if anyone else has any input on this, it'd be nice to know.

I think a big idea here is to have the spliced seeds gain properties of the plant it was spliced with. Someone wants to splice cannabis with a tomato to have tomatoes that contain THC, which in turn will show up in its byproducts (THC-laced ketchup) and so on.

:arrow:

What's the word on incorporating new crops/mutations though? I'm not much for spriting, but I know that it will be a big thing if we want to see any new seeds anytime soon. I guess we should also think up recipes that we can use with mutant plants...though those belong in the chef thread.

[I-Sett]

The main hydro issue I'm concerned with is that the properties/ranges for mutants should be brought down to be at least possible to achieve in under 20 minutes. The most dangerous mutations (death weed, exploding tomatoes, etc) should of course be the most difficult but it shouldn't be a matter of 4+ generations. If I can craft 5 11x11 bombs in the mixing room in under 10 minutes, there's no reason a traitor botanist shouldn't be able to splice up some death weed in under 20 minutes.
That would give the traitor at least 10 minutes even on the shortest rounds to carry out his nefarious machinations in manner more creative (but perhaps slightly less cathartic) than simply running off to bash people in the head with a chainsaw.
I don't think it should be easy mind you and I love the idea of using difficult to acquire or manufacture chemicals to stimulate mutation specific to the plant type (tricord and unstable mutagen to make White weed, bath salts and radium for black weed, etc.) but I do think that a committed antagonist should physically be able to accomplish the task in about 15 minutes, preferably with as little Rad-spamming as possible.

[Clarks]

I never liked babysitting plants. As soon as you have a few plants, and you're gone for a moment to splice some seeds or to get chemicals outside hydro, it's BLINK BLINK BLINK, give me water.
It's as if geneticists had to constantly feed their monkeys.

It would be better to have less hard maintenance to do. And more time to work on a complex system for mutations.

About using random chemicals to improve your plants, what if the chemicals were just three, Nitrogen, Phoshorus, Potassium, like in real world fertilizers.
And each improved one characteristic, while hurting another. You would have to mix proper ratios for best results.

Light and temperature could also influence plant growth. Hot/cold or normal water.
Plants requiring heavy light could be placed near UV lights, and plants requiring low light could go in a dark area of hydro.

I think it makes more sense than dousing the pot with cryoxadone or sulphuric acid.

[Clarks]

I forgot... here's a sample pot with temperature controls and a beaker slot.

[enforcer9]

Anyway, I honestly think this is a nice idea, and if nothing else is food for thought.

The grafting idea sounds kind of silly, although I suppose you could make frankenplants with some shady new drug or tool you can use for it. Watermelon vines with lemons growing out of it? Ha!

I definitely prefer the idea of splicing seeds together to make hybrids, with a 50/50 chance of that being either a "dual harvest" where you get both individual plants in a harvest or a hybrid plant that has properties of both plants.

I assume the hardest part of implementing this idea would be spriting the hybrids themselves. Perhaps only certain hybrids can truly actualize while everything else will only result in a dual harvest? Of course, splicing isn't so simple, so there must be a degree of complexity: Fail and success rates.

For example: there should be a high chance that the seeds just don't get along and kill themselves both/the other seed. So you get the chance of not getting both/anything, or getting either both in one or both as one. Something like this so you don't always automatically get mutants.

Half the fun is actually trying to get it, but the way it is now, it's not fun at all.

Grafting plants in real life isn't particularly difficult if you know how to do it, so I don't know why it sounds silly in a game where sticking an arm in a butt creates a robot.

And with splicing, I said that the spliced plant would be a hybrid plant, unless said fusion hasn't been coded in yet.

Other than that, it's pretty much pure speculation on my end.

[Anticheese]

If dispensed nutrients don't have a limit and don't have strong stat trade-offs, I can see this working.

[Val]

Grafting plants in real life isn't particularly difficult if you know how to do it, so I don't know why it sounds silly in a game where sticking an arm in a butt creates a robot.

Buttbot works because it's hilarious. I totally forgot that plant grafting is a thing, so pardon my ignorance. Not sure how this would actually work without changing how the chainsaw works. I'm much more in favor of seed splicing, anyway.

I never liked babysitting plants...I think it makes more sense than dousing the pot with cryoxadone or sulphuric acid.

I like the idea of incorporating light and temperature needs for optimal results, although I must say that a nutrition system wouldn't be as bad as people would think it is. Sure, it'd make things a lot more hectic in trying to also feed everything, but that's what plants do.

If you can propose a system for light/heat, then why not also a system for nutrition? Water is just one thing plants need. They need nutrition, light, air, and time. I'd also say they need the loving attention and care of the person growing it, particularly in this circumstance.

If dispensed nutrients don't have a limit and don't have strong stat trade-offs, I can see this working.

But see, that's the thing. You have a limited supply of special nutrients, but you can always make more yourself or with the help of any scientist who isn't just making napalm or poly acid or whatever else. This is in line with the suggestions that chemicals are fantastic, but only certain kinds will work.

Composting and You
First, let's take a look at your compost cart. It's that mostly unused cart that looks like the water cart, only brown and with a big C on it, which stands for "crap". Even your compost bags proclaim it's a big bag of crap and it does not leave much to the imagination.

Compost makes your plants grow faster, but at the cost of them needing more water. To make more compost, you drag seeds or plants into the compost cart, at which point they turn into compost that you can use to refill your compost bag. If you apply heat to a tub that has a plant + compost, it turns into plant nutrients.

This is a very rudimentary nutrition system, but a good example of what I'm proposing.

Nutrition System explained
With the nutrition system, plants will need regular amounts of plant nutrient in order to survive, however different kinds of nutrients will do different things, as I have outlined previously. Composting should instead make plain plant nutrient rather than straight compost, which can be used to feed plants.

Plain plant nutrients obtained from composting have no unique effect other than fulfilling the nutrient needs of your grows. With the nutrition system in place, you will be required to compost regularly if you want materials to keep your plants going. Plant nutrients are also a base for making special nutrients.

Special Nutrients explained
The special nutrients are those that you get from the nutrient vendor and from scientists who haven't burned to death yet in the chemistry department. Each of the special nutrients has a unique advantage and drawback that change the traits of a growing plant in a significant way. It also fulfills their nutrition needs when used.

You start with a limited amount of the special nutrients. If you run out, you'll have to ask for more or try and make it yourself if you know the recipe for a specific type of nutrient. Some of the recipes can be made with just things you find around the station, while others will require a reagent that's specifically coming out of the chem dispensers.

Self-Sufficient Botanist
For example, one of the recipes for a specific type of nutrient may be plant nutrients + sugar + heat.

You could make this one yourself. First you would compost something to get plant nutrients, then you could extract the sugar reagent from a sugarcane plant. Mix the two into a beaker and then use an igniter to heat it up. Voila, you have your special nutrient.

Some other recipes will not be so simple or easy to make as a botanist, however.

[Anticheese]

Its an uphill battle for doctors to get anything out of chem. What makes you think they'll give a shit about mixing up something for someone on the other side of the station?

[Furbeh]

Its an uphill battle for doctors to get anything out of chem. What makes you think they'll give a shit about mixing up something for someone on the other side of the station?

That is why you get your ass over to HoP and ask to be a Bio-Chemist with access to hydroponics and chemistry.

[atomic1fire]

If plant splicing was ever added, tobacco should be added just so that we can get tomacco plants.

Actually just make Tomacco an actual plant (maybe a tomato mutation?), that would be funny, especially since it would give the crew a way to get nicotine without smoking, or render them hopeless addicts, whichever.

[ISaidNo]

I'm not doing hybrids, it'd be too much of a pain in the ass to do things for every possible combination.
Anyway a small thing last night that I forgot to mention because I was kind of falling asleep at the time - I made new seed icons that aren't murderously difficult to click on. I'm focusing on small conveniences at the moment!

[Buzzbomb]

atomicfire dun said: If plant splicing was ever added, tobacco should be added just so that we can get tomacco plants.

Actually just make Tomacco an actual plant (maybe a tomato mutation?), that would be funny, especially since it would give the crew a way to get nicotine without smoking, or render them hopeless addicts, whichever.

This is actually already in...two hints: 1.not a tomato...2.can make the seeds quite easily within the first minute or so of a botanist's shift.

[enforcer9]

I'm not doing hybrids because I hate fun!