Head of Personnel Suggestions

[Wraithcraft]

I think that the Head of Personnel should be unable to modify their own access, or any ID card with their name. This way, they'd have to mess with security records in order to actually change their own access, removing some of the abuse.

This doesn't matter, since they can just make another ID. The suggestion to limit what access they can grant IDs effectively does the second half of what you're saying.

I completely forgot about the ability to hotswap ID's... maybe some form of... ID alarm? Something that alerts command staff by PDA when the HoP modifies an ID, so that if he makes an ID that doesn't match with the manifest or alters his own ID, action will be taken.

[misto]

i guess the hop position could be pulled, but the cap and all other station heads should be ready to shoulder the burden of changing ids. maybe they can all have id computers in their own sectors, geared to grant access to said sectors, with the cap retaining authority over all sectors

[Zafhset]

Isn't the primary issue shitty HoPs that dish out all access like water?

Why nerf the role instead of punishing/reprimanding bad players who do this? This would set a terrible precedent where the game essentially changes to accommodate for bad players, instead of the other way around.

[misto]

the game regularly changes to accomodate bad players see also: the billion times super kill secret chems and bombs and shit have been run into the ground and made consequently harder to make or outright removed

[Zafhset]

You should not be comparing the change of a station job to the change of chem/bomb recipes. Antags running things into the ground are very different from bad players.

[babayetu83]

Isn't the primary issue shitty HoPs that dish out all access like water?

Why nerf the role instead of punishing/reprimanding bad players who do this? This would set a terrible precedent where the game essentially changes to accommodate for bad players, instead of the other way around.

it feels at times the coders have a more vested interest in punishing the community at large and remove fun things rather than dealing with bad people who abuse the aforementioned fun things

and the all access id thing isn't even a problem, this was just started by ed venture who just loves to make kneejerk complaints/threads

[misto]

ZafhsetYou should not be comparing the change of a station job to the change of chem/bomb recipes. Antags running things into the ground are very different from bad players.

handing out access has deep impacts on gameplay in the obtaining of weaponry, tools, ease and speed of setting traps, ambushing targets and disposing of bodies that i feel it is not unreasonable at all to compare. it is just that running certain specific chems or weapons into the ground gives us all something easy and obvious to point to, whereas access levels are an "invisible" yet quite significant factor

[Ed Venture]

Despite my recent disdain for the HoP players lately I've come to agree with babyyetu83, Erik and Zafhest. Let's adminhelp them and push for the admins to punish these players before we do something drastic. My crackdown thread was a way for me to bring attention to this in hopes players could put some pressure on them before we got the admins involved while allowing other players to voice what what crimes went unpunished as well. Start punishing these players and if nothing changes then let's start asking for drastic changes.

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I still think sticking a thread on general discussion warning HoP players that if they keep abusing their power they will be punished by the community and the admins is a good idea.

[Zafhset]

Antags have a license to be bad, which is why the things they can be bad with (e.g: chems/bombs) are the ones on the nerfing end. You don't jeopardize station function by not being able to craft or make these almost antag specific items easily.

Non-antag HoPs have no business being shit (like giving out all access rampantly) - the job should not be changed because a number of rotten apples are shit with it. It's better to increase job regulation (Ed's 2nd idea would be good) and adminhelp to weed out people who abuse the role.

Captains can also dish out all access like the HoP, but no one is calling for the role to be modified or burned at the stake.

[Ed Venture]

and the all access id thing isn't even a problem, this was just started by ed venture who just loves to make kneejerk complaints/threads

Yeah that's why I waited Two weeks and watched this behavior happen over and over again before saying anything. Also that's rich coming from you a player who fucks with security, suicides when arrested and constantly post bad ideas and real kneejerk threads all the time. Your intentions have become quite clear as this will change how you play your rounds.

You were one of the people who raided Security last night and suicided in the interrogation room when we handcuffed you, You also attacked me last night and took my hat in another round and killed yourself when we were about to arrest you again and for some reason you got rewarded for it and got to respawn as a wizard, and anyone can take a look at your thread history for examples of your pages upon pages of awful ideas and kneejerk threads. At least I wait awhile to see if the behavior goes on for a bit before making a thread. Every time I respond to your responses in other threads you either never respond to me or completely dodge my post or you say I'm being passive aggressive and dismiss almost all my points. I try to be nice to you whenever I engage in conversation with you but man do you try my patience here on the forums.

[babayetu83]

and the all access id thing isn't even a problem, this was just started by ed venture who just loves to make kneejerk complaints/threads

Yeah that's why I waited Two weeks and watched this behavior happen over and over again before saying anything. Also that's rich coming from you a player who fucks with security, suicides when arrested and constantly post bad ideas and real kneejerk threads all the time. Your intentions have become quite clear as this will change how you play your rounds.

you're floundering here by trying to make this about me. i don't see what any of that has to do with the hop giving out all access ids.

[Ed Venture]

You call me out and I do the same to you. You are one of the people who abuse this and I wanted to make it known and since you are one of the players who do this the context fits perfectly with the thread.

[Maegor]

you're floundering here by trying to make this about me. i don't see what any of that has to do with the hop giving out all access ids.

this was just started by ed venture who just loves to make kneejerk complaints/threads

[Ed Venture]

For the record there are a few users who I played security with that went though this, There are people in IRC who agreed with me and I started that last thread not for me to complain but to bring attention to it, I called for player action regarding the issue not admin action in the crackdown thread, and to have a outlet for other players to talk about crimes they see go unpunished and I changed my opinion on wanted to nerf the job after three post in this thread This is the first time anyone has every said I am having a kneejerk reaction to anything and it's quite hilarious. My threads speak for themselves and you're welcome to go though everyone of them to see that. Again I waited two weeks as I played nearly every day during peak and late night hours as I watched this happen before saying something. I wanted to see if it kept happening and it did so I said something.

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I don't like to name names but babyetu83 is one of the people who I've noticed raid security at least two of those times but if he's going to pretty much say I'm lying about the situations I've been witnessing and been in myself I am going to retell my experiences with him I've had in the recent days. HoP is my second favorite job I don't want to see it whitelisted and I don't want to see it nerfed to oblivion either. In some ways you're right the HoP job is not the issue it's the players and I want to change the players who do this not the job.

[Vitatroll]

Only ready the initial post for now:

- The HoP is basically the mini-captain; we don't need a mini-captain. HoP is a useless job and ditching it would do nothing but piss off a bunch of nerds who want the access and lack of responsibilities. Then we'd start complaining about the captain giving out all access, though. Also, 'tradition'. Bleh.

- Only allow the HoS ID to give Sec access. This lowers the ability of the station to fight a little, but also counters the lazy powergamer's routine. It also makes sense IC.

- Only allow department head IDs to give out access to their department. Captain could give out access to anything. Except perhaps security.

- Merely taking off the option to allow access to the ID computer would help tons.

- Admins need to figure out what is bad and what isn't. To me mass-AAIDs are worse than greytiding, because it always devolves into greytiding with all access. You guys already cracked down on greytiding, so to me it's a natrual extension.