Either make Kuru less deadly, or make Prions harder to get.

[Grayshift]

I don't mind prions having a minimum threshold to take effect because they're easy to find and/or manufacture and totally incurable. Other disease reagents should stay accessible to malicious homeopathy! They're not hard at all to cure, and it's not as if a bottle of spider eggs automatically kills forty people. Getting the reagent into a lot of people is the challenge, doing it stealthily doubly so. You've either already spent at least five or six crystals for the sleepypen/emagged hypospray plus a poison bottle, more if you're unlucky on the disease draw.

Basically: Kuru was the problem, not spider eggs/gibbis/nanomachines.

[Noah Buttes]

Nanomachines should probably stay the same considering how slow they are and how easy they are to cure.

If you want an in-universe explanation, the immune system has no natural defense against the non-biological nanomachines, so even a miniscule dosage can spread unchecked.

[Marquesas]

Basically: Kuru was the problem, not spider eggs/gibbis/nanomachines.

Look at it this way: 5 units of most of the other poisons are usually enough to kill or at least severely debilitate people. This change brings all poisons to roughly the same deadliness.

I am also torn on the subject of nanites. I will consider this but won't promise anything.

[Ikkonoishi]

If low dose nanite infections would only replace your limbs with cyborg equivalents I would be really happy.

[Grayshift]

Basically: Kuru was the problem, not spider eggs/gibbis/nanomachines.

Look at it this way: 5 units of most of the other poisons are usually enough to kill or at least severely debilitate people. This change brings all poisons to roughly the same deadliness.

I am also torn on the subject of nanites. I will consider this but won't promise anything.

It really isn't a matter of deadliness though. If I wanted deadly I'd load my pen up with a sarin/cyanide/sulfonal mix and skip wasting any telecrystals on dud poison bottles. I want that disease stylishness, I want people screaming about spiders and GBS over the radio, and I can hardly call eight people max per lucky poison bottle draw a proper epidemic. Especially when you have to put up with the solid chance of not getting any disease reagent at all.

Diseases are "frightening" but easy to cure if you keep your head. Kuru was the overpowered exception and I'm glad it got nerfed.

I just don't think I'll ever want to spend crystals on poison with this change. For me, the whole point of gambling on the poison bottle lottery was the chance to become Pestilence.

If I can't argue the threshold limit away for nanites/spider eggs/gibbis away entirely, some alternative suggestions...
1. Keep the 5 unit threshold for prions, but lower ones for the others. (1/2/3 nanites/eggs/gibbis, based on speed of disease progression and availability of the cure)
2. Remove dud poison bottles. Sulfonal for certain, maybe cyanide and sarin too because you can just make those. Curare is pretty shit, sodium thiopental too. And as much as I like getting amanitin, a bigger bottle of it would be great - quantity of amanitin to something like 200, since you need to use a lot of that on each person.
3. Make diseases contagious or harder to cure.
4. Change the way disease progression works. Remove the thresholds on nanites/eggs/gibbis, but disease progression is boosted for each life tick that the reagent exists in the body, unboosted natural disease progression is very slow. Extreme homeopathy will only start the disease, whereas the five unit dose will rapid-progress the disease to near-incurable speed.
5. Add more existing disease reagents to the lottery. I know R/Painbow fluid is a thing, and HIV. Pubbie tears, mucus, stringy gibbis, green mucus, salmonella, banana peel, necrovirus, liquid plasma, liquid spacetime, loose screws. Make the non-lethal ones permanent and uncurable because I actually love non-lethal traitoring. Turning the station into a hoard of berserker zombie clowns sounds like a great time.

[Noah Buttes]

Basically: Kuru was the problem, not spider eggs/gibbis/nanomachines.

Look at it this way: 5 units of most of the other poisons are usually enough to kill or at least severely debilitate people. This change brings all poisons to roughly the same deadliness.

I am also torn on the subject of nanites. I will consider this but won't promise anything.

It really isn't a matter of deadliness though. If I wanted deadly I'd load my pen up with a sarin/cyanide/sulfonal mix and skip wasting any telecrystals on dud poison bottles. I want that disease stylishness, I want people screaming about spiders and GBS over the radio, and I can hardly call eight people max per lucky poison bottle draw a proper epidemic. Especially when you have to put up with the solid chance of not getting any disease reagent at all.

Diseases are "frightening" but easy to cure if you keep your head. Kuru was the overpowered exception and I'm glad it got nerfed.

I just don't think I'll ever want to spend crystals on poison with this change. For me, the whole point of gambling on the poison bottle lottery was the chance to become Pestilence.

If I can't argue the threshold limit away for nanites/spider eggs/gibbis away entirely, some alternative suggestions...
1. Keep the 5 unit threshold for prions, but lower ones for the others. (1/2/3 nanites/eggs/gibbis, based on speed of disease progression and availability of the cure)
2. Remove dud poison bottles. Sulfonal for certain, maybe cyanide and sarin too because you can just make those. Curare is pretty shit, sodium thiopental too. And as much as I like getting amanitin, a bigger bottle of it would be great - quantity of amanitin to something like 200, since you need to use a lot of that on each person.
3. Make diseases contagious or harder to cure.
4. Change the way disease progression works. Remove the thresholds on nanites/eggs/gibbis, but disease progression is boosted for each life tick that the reagent exists in the body, unboosted natural disease progression is very slow. Extreme homeopathy will only start the disease, whereas the five unit dose will rapid-progress the disease to near-incurable speed.
5. Add more existing disease reagents to the lottery. I know R/Painbow fluid is a thing, and HIV. Pubbie tears, mucus, stringy gibbis, green mucus, salmonella, banana peel, necrovirus, liquid plasma, liquid spacetime, loose screws. Make the non-lethal ones permanent and uncurable because I actually love non-lethal traitoring. Turning the station into a hoard of berserker zombie clowns sounds like a great time.

I love the idea of boosting the size of amanitin bottles. But never make HIV available in poison bottles. Space aids is a station wrecker.

[Spy_Guy]

I love the idea of boosting the size of amanitin bottles. But never make HIV available in poison bottles. Space aids is a station wrecker.

It hasn't been since halloween last year when it was changed.

[Noah Buttes]

I love the idea of boosting the size of amanitin bottles. But never make HIV available in poison bottles. Space aids is a station wrecker.

It hasn't been since halloween last year when it was changed.

Actually, space aids still gives you diseases, many of which are infectious. I remember when an artifact injected me with HIV a couple weeks ago. I gave several people an airborne strain of GBS.

[Don]

I'm adding a minimum reagent amount required for infection.

I'm also fixing the long-standing thing that Don just mentioned. Unless we aren't thinking about the same thing.

Yes, that was it.

I think there's another thing too that might be worth locking down. Enable PMs for me or just check the PGS thread if you're on SA. It's the first part of SageAcrin random obscura questions on page 69. You can presumably just do that thing and extract, rinse and repeat with no risk of self infection.

[Noah Buttes]

I'm adding a minimum reagent amount required for infection.

I'm also fixing the long-standing thing that Don just mentioned. Unless we aren't thinking about the same thing.

Yes, that was it.

I think there's another thing too that might be worth locking down. Enable PMs for me or just check the PGS thread if you're on SA. It's the first part of SageAcrin random obscura questions on page 69. You can presumably just do that thing and extract, rinse and repeat with no risk of self infection.

There are many, many other ways of reagent multiplication. The ice cream one was just the one which required the least effort. Clarks probably knows at least 5 other ways.

[Toybasher]

I am personally against removing the "Non Lethal" poisons from the poison bottles. Heck I personally find the poison bottles that just knock people out/put them to sleep more fun because you can then shove them down disposals and crush them.

I am also for adding more poisons to the poison bottle list, including poisons you can already make like Cyanide, and Sarin, neurotoxin, etc. (Initro I THINK is already in? I heard it was removed from the PB list, but I'm not sure. I can say for sure it used to show up on the list.)

Also, adding PainBow Fluid would be excellent. I want to run a cluwne gimmick as a traitor sometime. My only issue with PainBow fluid is it doesn't give people brain damage or change their name to "Cluwne" the same way the wizard spell does. If you could get some kind of "Super Painbow Fluid" that instantly cluwnes them like Clown's Revenge that would be halarious to run around with a hypospray and turn the entire station into laughing clowns.

[Noah Buttes]

I am personally against removing the "Non Lethal" poisons from the poison bottles. Heck I personally find the poison bottles that just knock people out/put them to sleep more fun because you can then shove them down disposals and crush them.

I am also for adding more poisons to the poison bottle list, including poisons you can already make like Cyanide, and Sarin, neurotoxin, etc. (Initro I THINK is already in? I heard it was removed from the PB list, but I'm not sure. I can say for sure it used to show up on the list.)

Also, adding PainBow Fluid would be excellent. I want to run a cluwne gimmick as a traitor sometime. My only issue with PainBow fluid is it doesn't give people brain damage or change their name to "Cluwne" the same way the wizard spell does. If you could get some kind of "Super Painbow Fluid" that instantly cluwnes them like Clown's Revenge that would be halarious to run around with a hypospray and turn the entire station into laughing clowns.

Cyanide, initro, and sarin all come in bottles, as do sulfonal and pancuronium. Most of those, except initro, are pretty much garbage since you can make them yourself in large quantities or acquire them through other methods with relative ease.

[Paineframe]

I wouldn't say they're garbage. They're still decent poisons, especially for their cost. There's other ways to get the same effects that don't involve spending telecrystals, but the same's true for many other items, like the pipe bomb and the emag (almost everything the emag does can be replicated to a certain extent some other way). It just stands out more for poison bottles because every job that is allowed to order them has absolutely no trouble at all gaining access to a chem dispenser.

[Noah Buttes]

I wouldn't say they're garbage. They're still decent poisons, especially for their cost. There's other ways to get the same effects that don't involve spending telecrystals, but the same's true for many other items, like the pipe bomb and the emag (almost everything the emag does can be replicated to a certain extent some other way). It just stands out more for poison bottles because every job that is allowed to order them has absolutely no trouble at all gaining access to a chem dispenser.

Actually cyanide is a pretty shitty poison and sulfonal is ridiculously easy to make, so those are pretty much just wastes of telecrystals.

[Splatpope]

wastes of telecrystals.

thats what he meant by garbage, it's not about the fact they're bad, it's about the fact that you spend precious tratorpoints for things you can get super duper easily