[MERGED PR] Makes Stowaway a latejoin role

[Silent Majority]

Yes I've talked about this many a time

[Solenoid]

I don't know, I don't really agree with this approach. I'd prefer to just keep stowaway as a trait, but perhaps limit players from playing security/command roles. I think there's real gimmick potential in a stowaway chef, bartender, botanist, etc. that would be totally removed through this change and it'd instead just make 2 players into glorified maint goblins.

I think the fun of stowaway is that you are a role, but not officially. Is that because you snuck on? Did your records just get corrupted and you lost your ID? Are you trying to be a representative of some secret organization who can't leave a paper trail? I think there's a ton of great options there that expand beyond what the stowaway job is trying to be that'd be closed off with this change.

Just my 2 cents, I'd like to see it remain a trait with some changes. I feel like the stowaway job forces players to be a boxed-in version of what stowaway provides and removes roleplay options and backstory/gimmick potential.

[Kotlol]

Or how about this...

Stowaways are never antagonists and always staff assistants.

Anyway... At that point we might as well make it a "Job"
The problem is the trait is annoying.

[mintyphresh]

I don't know, I don't really agree with this approach. I'd prefer to just keep stowaway as a trait, but perhaps limit players from playing security/command roles. I think there's real gimmick potential in a stowaway chef, bartender, botanist, etc. that would be totally removed through this change and it'd instead just make 2 players into glorified maint goblins.

I think the fun of stowaway is that you are a role, but not officially. Is that because you snuck on? Did your records just get corrupted and you lost your ID? Are you trying to be a representative of some secret organization who can't leave a paper trail? I think there's a ton of great options there that expand beyond what the stowaway job is trying to be that'd be closed off with this change.

I really really can see where you're coming from with this, but characters being an unofficial role is exactly the problem. So long as they are able to select a role, they'll see themselves as that role; this naturally leads to many players wanting the access of that role, and the PDA of that role... which completely defeats the point of picking stowaway.

If there were some way to get players to stop joining the crew as stowaway, that might honestly be a better solution, but I couldn't think of one. A change that was suggested recently was to randomize the clothes you get as a stowaway; hopefully this helps with blending in (and makes the process of assembling a disguise from a sous-chef hat, botanist jumpsuit, and scientist shoes much more interesting)

[Cal]

I hate this trait a lot, It adds very little, in my opinion.



Meta-trust ignores all aspects of the "stowaway" thing. I've literally had another stowaway call me out for being slightly sneaky around the station and not trying to be caught. All of Security and the crew was like "Oh yeah they always sneak in." What even?

[JOELED]

Yeah I don't like stowaway as a trait, makes way more sense as a job to me. The whole half-your-job thing was always so weird to me, with the meta-ing of people trusting stowaways they know ooc as if they were just actually their job and also especially when people used it in roles like detective or sec to get one over on antags/crew who had no reasonable way of knowing there was a Mystery Sec Guy Not On The Manifest. honestly in my ideal world it would be removed entirely but the rework of it as a job with the random clothes sounds charming too

[Fuppy]

I'll be real, I think we all like how the stowaway trait works in theory as opposed to how it works in practice. In theory it makes for some interesting situations and RP where the person's legitimacy and reason for being aboard is questioned by the crew. In practice you knock on a door for five minutes and then someone sends you to the HoP desk to get an ID because meta-wise we all know whats up. The funniest stowaway interactions I've had are with staff assistants by far. Anything beyond that is just adding an extra step to the start of your round and not much else.

[Kotlol]

Here's another idea... if we don't change it to a job.
Stowaway removes your charater and randomizes it. Removing any meta trust and reason to just take it since it's a slightly annoying trait.

You want to be some unknown stowaway? Go ahead, but you won't be last shifts Handy Mchanderson. You'd be Stowy McStowaway the 3rd.

I think this alone will end the meta trust and make people who dare to pick stowaway think twice of just going: "Well people know me."

[Silent Majority]

I love the suggestion of it randomizing

[Decarcassor]

Here's another idea... if we don't change it to a job.
Stowaway removes your charater and randomizes it. Removing any meta trust and reason to just take it since it's a slightly annoying trait.

You want to be some unknown stowaway? Go ahead, but you won't be last shifts Handy Mchanderson. You'd be Stowy McStowaway the 3rd.

I think this alone will end the meta trust and make people who dare to pick stowaway think twice of just going: "Well people know me."

Honneslty I don't think his would solve the fundamental issue with stowaways. You'd still have round start [insert job here] in full gear with no ID or record going to the HoP. And then what ? They will still get an ID because they will still be obvious stowaways and not giving them an ID would make their job unplayable.

The current implementation of stowaway does not make you a stowaway at all. Thats the problem. A stowaway doesn't work here and shouldn't take a job slot and gear.

That being said I like the idea of randomizing stowaways to avoid meta stuff. Random name, appearance and clothes sound nice. Also give them a falsified staffie/gimmick job level ID that does not show up in the record and now we have something looking like an actual stowaway.

[Mouse]

Trog like being coach for tiger vest.  

[mintyphresh]

Meta trust is a problem, sure, but I don't want to implement forced random-naming to try and quell it. Reoccurring characters are consistently fun to play, and being able to pick your name means you can pick a funny or fitting name. I can see about adding the tiger vest to the random pool...

I started cracking at the "fake ID" code that everyone suggested. I still don't think it's the best idea, but the current goal is to make it a wrinkled, water-damaged paper slip with 3-7 uses of staffie access, similar to an 8-use access implant. It'll probably also be marked as contraband, just for that extra bit of spiciness.

[Haprenti]

With regards to issues with it being relegated to a latejoin job (like antag count at roundstart), why can't currently-latejoin-only jobs be made pickable on character selection? They could be hidden by a Display Other Jobs toggle button so they don't clutter job select, with a disclaimer that these jobs aren't garanteed to be available. If you chose one job that doesn't end up available the game can still fall back according to your other preferences.

[Glamurio]

With regards to issues with it being relegated to a latejoin job (like antag count at roundstart), why can't currently-latejoin-only jobs be made pickable on character selection? They could be hidden by a Display Other Jobs toggle button so they don't clutter job select, with a disclaimer that these jobs aren't garanteed to be available. If you chose one job that doesn't end up available the game can still fall back according to your other preferences.

Off-topic, but going out on a limb that admins are worried about enabling special jobs too much lest the majority of players plays special jobs rather than mainstay jobs. I personally don't think that's a problem, so long as most available special jobs are a variation of a mainstay (psychiatrist for doctor, for instance).