MarkNstein's thoughts on character-creation and antag-behaviour in SS13

[MarkNstein]

I've edited my post adding a big red disclaimer at the top (better 24hr late than never) and also adding two clarification bullet points. I will paste copy them immediately below:
In my above attempt to be concise, some points were inferred that I did not intend. To be explicit:

• You can absolutely use your character's traits and history in your antaging. I didn't write that you can't or shouldn't. My intention was: DON'T STRESS making your backstory match-up to all your innocent & antag behavior in the game - It's MRP not HRP.
  
• I'm not writing that you MUST kill people or are otherwise obligated. I have NO intention of modifying RP Rule 4. If you have a no-kill gimmick: great! But if you roll antag please but SOME effort into driving the round. (Again don't stress that either, I've rolled antag while being low-energy too)
  

I used to be big on making grandiose plans. ... I felt I had become pidgeonholed by expectation and action, and I didn't think me doing the same evil scheme(s) all the time was 'fun' for everyone else.  ...
I developed the villian character. My Syndisona became a person and not a strawman. This left my normal brand of evil and wickedness feeling....Wrong.
So I unsigned from the most common antags types. I signed off everything, then slowly added a few back.
Paladin is not a murder master when she is an antag. ...
When I antag now I've moved towards other gimmicks then the big kills. ...
Since my change from super villian to morally grey, I have made people doubt their beliefs, given tours and pitches for syndicate recruitment, argued against ethics, assasisnated or murdered people, sold illegal weapons, and taught people how to be better criminals.

If I get an antag role and a situation thats suited to a silent killer, I will go for that, or a loud killer. But the nature of combat, and the antag types I have enabled, makes any attempt at 'loud' a short run till I'm gang stomped by tasers.

If I am my ALT, however, she's just horrible when she's an antag. I mostly concentrate on ruining the station but give her an avenue and she'll bite.

But for me it's not just the 'kill' I like anymore, it's the tension.

Yes! Intrigue! Subversion! Tension! Escalation! All good things!

Thanks for sharing your character development process! I'll never claim that there's an ideal process to making a character, but starting with few antag options enabled and building the character up and building your own comfort up is a very good process. I hope your writing on this inspires others.

And as you wrote at the start: while it's A-OK to self-limit your play to a character's traits, your character shouldn't feel like a significant shackle (pidgeonhole). There's a nuanced difference between playing a character and feeling restricted by a character; it's the latter that I want to dispel.

I don't have much else to write as a response: Very good reply, thanks again for sharing!

... The greatest power [antagonists] have is to drive the round forward. Eating humanized monkeys in a corner for 60 minutes is pretty uninteresting for everyone involved and causes no buildup of tension or dread.
... a question i often see on the RP discord channel, and it's about people wondering if they escalated enough when usually a few sentences to provide a quick or silly explanation as to what is happening is plenty enough to make it an enjoyable fight. Kills have so much more lasting and interesting impact than a simple mild inconvenience and allows things to naturally escalate. The vast majority of the most fun interactions i had interacting with an antagonist was with them trying or suceeding in killing me or my crewmates.

When the antagonist cap was higher on RP, it tended to be very chaotic ... that other antags caused as an excuse to add even more mayhem. Now that the antag cap is lower, if a single antag decides that they want to remain "friendly", it kneecaps the pace of the round ...
..."Hello. I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." ...

On the "eating humanized monkeys for 60 minutes" comment: I don't want anyone reading this to feel shamed. There's good intent on wanting to keep other players in the round, AND it can be intimidating to be an antag, AND it takes a good amount of effort to antag; all that said - Bartimeus is right to write "it makes no tension". (It IS good at getting you blood-points that you may otherwise lack from a small crew-size)

I agree wholeheartedly that some of my favorite rounds have concluded with my own death as antag, followed by the rest of the crew then recovering overall and/or desecrating by corpse. Similarly I've also partaken in some very comical funerals for characters who died early in the round; Both the service of the funerals and people messing up with the mass-ejectors.

The RP cap and chaos correlation have me thinking.

Good antag-prompts, thanks for sharing!

Ah this reminded me one time I rolled spy thief doc...

Good story with antag-inspiration, thanks for sharing!

Whenever I am an antagonist I tend to try "minor" annoyances ... so I can have more interactions with security and such.
But when someone crosses me... I will hunt em and fight em or kill em.
That or.. if I am a clown antagonist...Murder... ITS MY CLOWNYRIGHT!!
... RP ROUNDS ARE 90 MINS! NOT 60 XD!
... classic ... But in RP.. if an antagonist runs into my room, draw a rocket launcher and kills me with it...
So on 3/4 [hours] ... on 1 [hours] ... I would be like: "Well I signed up for this"

Also on the topic of "FRIENDLY ANTAGS"
On classic I can see it being a big no but on RP. It's not frowned upon... I consider Friendly Antags, antagonists who will be provoked to do antagging or "inactive" so another antag can have the spot light.

Heck I killed a vampire as a changeling before and ate them cause... they were causing too much noise for me to do anything.

If you wanna be "Friendly" and use antag abillities to kill other antags.. do it as messy and collotaral as possible. It's just more funny.

Nothing wrong with minor annoyances and keeping the round rolling!

I'll admit many RP rounds stretch to 90 minutes; I've edited my post.

writing as an admin: if someone "walks in and RPGs you - Ahelp that! Regardless of their Antag status!"  In no way am I trying to encourage RP-less murdering. (I suspect you were just making a hypothetical - but I'd be remiss to not address it)

HOWEVER! In 2d farty spacemans there are many causes for death in the round -some random events, some player actions-. I strongly encourage you NOT to be upset at dying 30 minutes into the round - especially if it furthers the round. Sometimes janitors or in the wrong maintenance tunnel at the wrong time and get gobbled. Missing Persons make intrigue all the more potent than insults and broken windows.


You have a different definition of "Friendly antag" than me. When I write "Friendly Antag" I mean "An antag that is friendly to the crew" for the majority of the round.

• "I consider Friendly Antags, antagonists who will be provoked to do antagging" - sometimes people are uninspired in their antag round - nothing wrong with them waiting for an opportunity to present itself. I also wouldn't necessarily call this "friendly" behavior towards the crew - perhaps they are "playing along until their trap springs" etc.
  
• One antag playing a quieter round so that another can have the spotlight is a kind gesture player-to-player. Not what I'd call being "friendly to the crew"
  
• "I have killed many [characters] as a Friendly antag for stepping out of line" - You were not necessarily friendly to the crew - unless you were acting as security while being an antag which is a HUGE nono.
  
• "Ate a vampire too loud for me to act" I'm gonna level with you: that reads as self-centered and intentionally mean to the other player, but you only wrote a one sentence summary and I don't have full context of the whole round. (And neither of those are rule breaks)
  

(As an aside, I try to consistently write characters referring to the fictional crew, and players referring to the fleshy emotional people behind the other screens. I encourage everyone to do the same)

While I get your point and I agree with a lot of it, I don't agree with all of it.

No one has to make a backstory to their antagging, however, for some people, they feel it makes their RP more enjoyable. ... I feel that people should be allowed to do it either way, as long as it's not rule-breaking or disrespectful to anyone ... Both can be good.

On the topic of "friendly antags", I strongly disagree with the sentiment that antags have to be lethal. Sometimes you can be a non lethal antag, and it's more fun than a murder spree. One of the most fun rounds I had as an antagonist recently was me violently forcing everyone on the station, on 4, to make a collaborative soup and then we all ate it. ... My point is, you don't have to be lethal as an antag...

Just like, don't be disrespectful.

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Okay so I actually misunderstood ... Human communication is funny like that!

I wouldn't have made it a forum post if I didn't want to hear disagreements! Though as it turns out we're mostly already on the same page.

Two posts in a row are highlighting a difference in understanding of what a "friendly antag" is. A "friendly antag" is NOT a non-lethal one! A "friendly antag" is one that is friendly (to a fault) to the crew. (And there's nuance to "being friendly for a while to build trust - then break trust", etc)

And as you already know: I never wrote that antags are obligated to kill - but I do think antag players should feel less insecure about killing the crew.


I also feel compelled to write: "being respectful" doesn't preclude a (innocent) character insulting and being rude to another character. But players shouldn't dis-respect other players. blah blah, I'm not saying anything new.

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I don't know why there's so much space between paragraphs. I tried doing a "source-edit" and they stayed. (attempt #2)