Goonhub
05-10-2021, 09:05 AM
Hi, I wasn't involved in the aforementioned round. I'm chiming in as an admin, because I feel like my perspective may be valuable, and because I want to respond to what I think are some pretty unfair characterizations.
If someone does something that I think they shouldn't have, and I PM them "hey please don't do this", the response I'm looking for is "oh okay", not "I'm sorry you feel that way". If someone refuses to acknowledge what an admin is telling them, then yes they're getting banned.
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/412381738510319626/841223313911971840/unknown.png)
Efrem could've just straight up ignored you, but instead chose to try and explain to you a second time his expectations. He clearly told you when he was done talking, but you chose to push and continue.
I feel like comments about your playstyle are pretty fitting in a ban appeal where you got banned for refusing to adjust your playstyle. In the logs you posted, Efrem already tried to explain to you ingame why he didn't think your actions were appropriate. And he tried explaining again in Discord. He could've just responded "appeal denied" to your appeal and closed your thread, but instead chose to give you a thorough breakdown of his thought process in banning you.
This isn't some different opinion on whether frog hats are cooler than cowboy hats, this is a different opinion on behavior that heavily impacts other players' experiences and how rounds play out (especially on the RP server). Ban appeals are for explaining why you should be unbanned, not for "contentious discourse" - you don't argue with an admin and then get unbanned if you "win".
Your explanation for why you should be unbanned was basically "technically I didn't break any of the rules", which really isn't very substantial. The RP rules are there as guidelines for how people should play, but they aren't all-encompassing, given the squishy nature of roleplay and what makes for good roleplay. And even in general -
![[Image: unknown.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/412381738510319626/841231808011042816/unknown.png)
I see a lot of different courses of action in your Discord conversation. None of them were "just sit there and ignore everything and don't do anything". They were all variants of "be kind to the antagonists". And even if Efrem hadn't offered any different courses of action, admins aren't required to give alternative courses of action for every single person they ban.
You feel like your ban was unfair. Sure. You feel like some of the things Efrem said were rude. I get that. These are valid things to feel. But framing it as Efrem being "toxic" and "abusive" and "bullying" really isn't convincing. Those words in particular are pretty loaded, and I really fail to see how you think they're appropriate. This complaint feels like it was made in bad faith (especially now that I see your posts on mentor/HoS apps about "representing the community" - this is pretty passive aggressive and not great), and I'm not sure where the "constructive feedback that we can learn and do better from" is.
To all the other posters in this thread - if you expect professionalism and niceness from an admin (someone whose time and labor is totally unpaid and uncompensated), doubling down with "I'm sorry you feel that way" in your unban appeal is not the way to go, after that admin has already tried to explain to you why they don't want you to do something, twice (once ingame, once in Discord). This doesn't mean you can't be critical, but I hope you also have it in you to be empathetic about how exhausting all this work is.
(05-09-2021, 11:46 PM)Slazenger Wrote: I attempted to open discourse and defend my actions to Efrem/CaptainBravo, which was responded to with a ban as I had a differing opinion to them.
If someone does something that I think they shouldn't have, and I PM them "hey please don't do this", the response I'm looking for is "oh okay", not "I'm sorry you feel that way". If someone refuses to acknowledge what an admin is telling them, then yes they're getting banned.
(05-09-2021, 11:46 PM)Slazenger Wrote: I posted an unban appeal and reached out via Discord, for feedback and insight, which devolved into them ridiculing me and then abruptly shutting down the conversation.
Efrem could've just straight up ignored you, but instead chose to try and explain to you a second time his expectations. He clearly told you when he was done talking, but you chose to push and continue.
(05-09-2021, 11:46 PM)Slazenger Wrote: They then took it back to my unban appeal, made mischaracterizations and made inappropriate comments about my playstyle (as it differs from their own expectations), while being toxic in the process.
I feel like comments about your playstyle are pretty fitting in a ban appeal where you got banned for refusing to adjust your playstyle. In the logs you posted, Efrem already tried to explain to you ingame why he didn't think your actions were appropriate. And he tried explaining again in Discord. He could've just responded "appeal denied" to your appeal and closed your thread, but instead chose to give you a thorough breakdown of his thought process in banning you.
(05-09-2021, 11:46 PM)Slazenger Wrote: They are incapable of having contentious discourse with someone who has a different opinion of them, and instead rely on bullying and personal attacks.
This isn't some different opinion on whether frog hats are cooler than cowboy hats, this is a different opinion on behavior that heavily impacts other players' experiences and how rounds play out (especially on the RP server). Ban appeals are for explaining why you should be unbanned, not for "contentious discourse" - you don't argue with an admin and then get unbanned if you "win".
Your explanation for why you should be unbanned was basically "technically I didn't break any of the rules", which really isn't very substantial. The RP rules are there as guidelines for how people should play, but they aren't all-encompassing, given the squishy nature of roleplay and what makes for good roleplay. And even in general -
(05-09-2021, 11:46 PM)Slazenger Wrote: They never once provided a reasonable explanation of a different course of action that I could have taken in the situation.
I see a lot of different courses of action in your Discord conversation. None of them were "just sit there and ignore everything and don't do anything". They were all variants of "be kind to the antagonists". And even if Efrem hadn't offered any different courses of action, admins aren't required to give alternative courses of action for every single person they ban.
You feel like your ban was unfair. Sure. You feel like some of the things Efrem said were rude. I get that. These are valid things to feel. But framing it as Efrem being "toxic" and "abusive" and "bullying" really isn't convincing. Those words in particular are pretty loaded, and I really fail to see how you think they're appropriate. This complaint feels like it was made in bad faith (especially now that I see your posts on mentor/HoS apps about "representing the community" - this is pretty passive aggressive and not great), and I'm not sure where the "constructive feedback that we can learn and do better from" is.
To all the other posters in this thread - if you expect professionalism and niceness from an admin (someone whose time and labor is totally unpaid and uncompensated), doubling down with "I'm sorry you feel that way" in your unban appeal is not the way to go, after that admin has already tried to explain to you why they don't want you to do something, twice (once ingame, once in Discord). This doesn't mean you can't be critical, but I hope you also have it in you to be empathetic about how exhausting all this work is.