Goonhub
07-08-2024, 10:04 PM
since i made the change, i feel like replying with my own reasoning and justifications
this is wrong -- the PDA ATM feature does not let you buy or redeem lottery tickets or spacebux -- but also intentional.
let me explain. i have occasionally gone moonlighting on other codebases. sometimes i see things other places do that makes the game more interesting/fun in some way, and i occasionally bring that back here.
tg's id cards (the cards themselves, not the pda) allow people the ability to easily withdraw and deposit credits onto your account. in general, PINs don't exist. vending machines just work with your equipped id -- you don't have to log in, and you can't similarly forget to log out. it just works.
what i noticed was that this made people way more likely to use money! and that's what happened here when i added it -- people actually use money now, at least more than they did. it ends up in their bank accounts to be stolen later instead of dropped in a box and forgotten about.
re: the credit transfer devices, that's very much intentional, because... i just don't like them. ever since the rework, they're cumbersome to use. there are a ton of steps involved, everyone has to enter their PIN and the price -- there's a reason i only ever saw one person use it. when i've brought it up, people mention they mostly used it for crime, and the rework (adding a PIN requirement) made them effectively useless for that, too.
at the same time, okay, great. ATMs. you know one other thing that made me make this change? sitting in my spot on Kondaru, next to the captain's office, and seeing multiple people, over many weeks, asking where an ATM was.
you know where the ATM is? right next to them. and that's one of the only ones on the map, even! they're limited in number, cumbersome to use, and out of the way.
previously:
bob wants to sell you something.
you go "cool. how much." 500 credits.
you run all the way to an ATM, pull out your PDA, pull your card out of your PDA, swipe your ID in the ATM, put in your PIN again, even though it autofills and the dialog is literally just there to make you click "okay" again, withdraw the required amount, go back to bob
"here's 500 credits"
bob stashes the credits on their person somewhere.
if you had a credit transfer device, instead you could use that cumbersome thing instead.
currently:
bob wants to sell you something.
you go "cool. how much." 500 credits.
you pull out your pda. you withdraw 500 credits.
"here's 500 credits"
bob deposits it in their pda. neither of you had to interrupt what you were doing.
i just do not find "i have to run to the atm" engaging or exciting roleplay, especially when most people don't know where the atms even are.
i'm going to stop you right there, because, hold up: you already lost your ID and PDA. they're gone.
if you want another one, you need to go visit someone with access to the ID computer ... and whoever has that will almost certainly have access to the bank records, too, so you could have them either give you some replacement money (since the budget now has a built-in surplus) or figure out who the thief was from the massively-inflated bank account.
if you want to stop someone from stealing your money from your bank account, may i, quite literally and genuinely, suggest withdrawing your cash when your paycheck somes in and stashing it in your box? that way when someone yoinks your pda/card, you still have all your money.
currently:
* someone who is dead, or otherwise loses their ID, is vulnerable to having their money stolen
with your proposed change of no longer being able to do this:
* you, uh, can't do it at all.
* ... unless you both manage to get and use the genetics power that reveals their PIN (before they're dead, of course), or get access to the ID/banking computer, in which case you can just edit their bank account to 0 and give yourself money anyway
...and when you steal someone's money, if they're dead... they might not be very happy with you when they get cloned! If you're constantly picking people's corpses for ID, they should get mad when they're cloned or otherwise revived and have no money!
i genuinely do not see how making money harder to use improves the game. in fact, having to travel to an atm specifically removes someone from whatever situation they are actively roleplaying in.
(07-08-2024, 09:37 PM)UpsilonYellow Wrote: 1. Physical ATMs & Card Readers are functionally redundant.
(not as big of an issue to me, and from what i've heard, people do enjoy not having to wander the station for the One (1) ATM in aft maints or wherever.)
card readers are arguably obtuse by design, requiring a slight bit of effort to use (around 3 clicks). the upside to using them were that they alleviated the above mentioned ATM problem. with that being said, why would anyone (apart from gimmickers) want to use this system now? they've been left in limbo, simply... existing. it's a shame too, card readers have a lovely looking receipt system, and because of PDA ATMs, new players are almost guaranteed to never see it.
this is wrong -- the PDA ATM feature does not let you buy or redeem lottery tickets or spacebux -- but also intentional.
let me explain. i have occasionally gone moonlighting on other codebases. sometimes i see things other places do that makes the game more interesting/fun in some way, and i occasionally bring that back here.
tg's id cards (the cards themselves, not the pda) allow people the ability to easily withdraw and deposit credits onto your account. in general, PINs don't exist. vending machines just work with your equipped id -- you don't have to log in, and you can't similarly forget to log out. it just works.
what i noticed was that this made people way more likely to use money! and that's what happened here when i added it -- people actually use money now, at least more than they did. it ends up in their bank accounts to be stolen later instead of dropped in a box and forgotten about.
re: the credit transfer devices, that's very much intentional, because... i just don't like them. ever since the rework, they're cumbersome to use. there are a ton of steps involved, everyone has to enter their PIN and the price -- there's a reason i only ever saw one person use it. when i've brought it up, people mention they mostly used it for crime, and the rework (adding a PIN requirement) made them effectively useless for that, too.
at the same time, okay, great. ATMs. you know one other thing that made me make this change? sitting in my spot on Kondaru, next to the captain's office, and seeing multiple people, over many weeks, asking where an ATM was.
you know where the ATM is? right next to them. and that's one of the only ones on the map, even! they're limited in number, cumbersome to use, and out of the way.
previously:
bob wants to sell you something.
you go "cool. how much." 500 credits.
you run all the way to an ATM, pull out your PDA, pull your card out of your PDA, swipe your ID in the ATM, put in your PIN again, even though it autofills and the dialog is literally just there to make you click "okay" again, withdraw the required amount, go back to bob
"here's 500 credits"
bob stashes the credits on their person somewhere.
if you had a credit transfer device, instead you could use that cumbersome thing instead.
currently:
bob wants to sell you something.
you go "cool. how much." 500 credits.
you pull out your pda. you withdraw 500 credits.
"here's 500 credits"
bob deposits it in their pda. neither of you had to interrupt what you were doing.
i just do not find "i have to run to the atm" engaging or exciting roleplay, especially when most people don't know where the atms even are.
Quote:2. Theft is Trivially Easy to pull off.
this is my primary concern.
i've been in rounds where people steal my PDA & ID. sure, that's fine. but now, recently, thanks to modern developments in crime, i get my access removed, my contacts lost AND my money stolen donated against my will, all in the same breath! speaking from experience, being financially crippled from ALL angles isn't very fun.
i'm going to stop you right there, because, hold up: you already lost your ID and PDA. they're gone.
if you want another one, you need to go visit someone with access to the ID computer ... and whoever has that will almost certainly have access to the bank records, too, so you could have them either give you some replacement money (since the budget now has a built-in surplus) or figure out who the thief was from the massively-inflated bank account.
if you want to stop someone from stealing your money from your bank account, may i, quite literally and genuinely, suggest withdrawing your cash when your paycheck somes in and stashing it in your box? that way when someone yoinks your pda/card, you still have all your money.
Quote:on the other side, i've also had rounds where i've just been able to pick other people's (dead & alive) PDAs up and print their money with a single button. this is lame. i want to FEEL like i'm putting effort into my crimes! how am i supposed to get my dopamine rush from 4 seconds~ of prepwork? it's not fun for either party involved.
currently:
* someone who is dead, or otherwise loses their ID, is vulnerable to having their money stolen
with your proposed change of no longer being able to do this:
* you, uh, can't do it at all.
* ... unless you both manage to get and use the genetics power that reveals their PIN (before they're dead, of course), or get access to the ID/banking computer, in which case you can just edit their bank account to 0 and give yourself money anyway
...and when you steal someone's money, if they're dead... they might not be very happy with you when they get cloned! If you're constantly picking people's corpses for ID, they should get mad when they're cloned or otherwise revived and have no money!
Quote:Possible Solutions:
i don't know how unpopular of an opinion this will end up being, but it's probably down there: i'd personally rather see the PDA ATM feature removed, but i know that's a hard sell. i do genuinely believe it'd be in the overall best interest of the game.
i genuinely do not see how making money harder to use improves the game. in fact, having to travel to an atm specifically removes someone from whatever situation they are actively roleplaying in.