Goonhub
06-08-2024, 09:45 AM
Sorry for adding to the discussion again, but I feel like a lot of this discourse has made me a bit concerned for the future of the PR and I want to try to provide some counterpoints. Also, I may use strongly worded arguments throughout the post, but it's never intended to be mean, sorry if it ever comes across that way and I hope it doesn't.
TL;DR, I think we should just have the option be available at roundstart if the genetics method is being endorsed, it has no real difference in terms of gameplay and just adds to the chance that an awkward character moment happens where someone doesn't look as intended. If players can start with robotic limbs, I don't see why they couldn't also start with RGB-colored skin with a trait point cost, it's as much a part of a character's identity as a missing arm is and implies departmental interaction pre-round that is persistent across those rounds in the same way.
Firstly, on giving other mutantraces the ability to get colorful skin, I don't see the problem personally on taking the "unique" thing of lizards and giving it to others. Wigs are pretty much identical to this, the "unique" thing of humans(hair) was given to other mutantraces at roundstart via a trait. I don't think we've ever seen any human players complain about this though, because it's clearly just a way to increase customization and personalization that would otherwise require an awkward IC exchange. Realistically, we could've had wigs be a "go talk to a human and convince them to lop off their hair at roundstart" thing, but it was recognized that this felt bad and required a lot of convincing and in-round time to make work. I think this equally exists in going to genetics and trying to convince them at roundstart to stop scanning the genes of some random monkey and finishing roundstart research and instead set your character's skin to a specific set of RGB codes.
Secondly, of course limits must always be in place when it comes to characters. We can't have people play anything and everything just because they know their way around the character editor, but I would say that the options granted by making humans various RGB-colors are relatively limited and already possible via genetics. I don't understand why the color options available at genetics couldn't be made a roundstart option if people are going to just go to genetics every shift and get the same thing done. It feels functionally identical and moreso like the option is being locked behind a timegate and the presence of a geneticist or MD with proper knowledge than anything else. This is the same thing every monkey player does on the RP servers, and it can lead to awkward moments of seeing characters in a form they're not intended to be in. Though the monkey mutantrace is banned from roundstart for a few obvious reasons- I don't think that having RGB-skin would have the same balance concerns and wouldn't pose a problem at roundstart.
Lastly, I don't enjoy the idea of reagent interactions causing changes in a character's skin color. It feels awkwardly meta to start bathing in some random chemical to become red, and now you need to hope even more players are willing to play along just to get your character looking as intended if you don't have roundstart access to those chemicals. If they're offered alongside the trait/genetics, then that's fine. But I'd prefer if they weren't the only option.
I really think this PR, as a trait, makes perfect sense. We have something similar in the limb picker during character creation, which prevents the awkward shuffle of characters with recurring robotic limbs to robotics every shift, since it's something unchanging about their character and relatively inconsequential(though, the more powerful limbs come at a cost). I personally don't see a difference between the two, since the gameplay impact is minimal, they both reduce roundstart tedium for the player, and come with a meta cost of trait points which impact you in other ways.
Honestly, I'd really love a testmerge of this PR, as mentioned in my last post. We don't know how the trait will impact crew culture and the sorts of characters people make until it's actually in action and everyone has access to it. I'm still not sure whether or not I'd want it long-term, but I think that a lot of the reasons proposed against it, and its alternatives(just go to genetics), aren't things I agree with personally.
Just my opinion, I'm down to hear more from others.
TL;DR, I think we should just have the option be available at roundstart if the genetics method is being endorsed, it has no real difference in terms of gameplay and just adds to the chance that an awkward character moment happens where someone doesn't look as intended. If players can start with robotic limbs, I don't see why they couldn't also start with RGB-colored skin with a trait point cost, it's as much a part of a character's identity as a missing arm is and implies departmental interaction pre-round that is persistent across those rounds in the same way.
Firstly, on giving other mutantraces the ability to get colorful skin, I don't see the problem personally on taking the "unique" thing of lizards and giving it to others. Wigs are pretty much identical to this, the "unique" thing of humans(hair) was given to other mutantraces at roundstart via a trait. I don't think we've ever seen any human players complain about this though, because it's clearly just a way to increase customization and personalization that would otherwise require an awkward IC exchange. Realistically, we could've had wigs be a "go talk to a human and convince them to lop off their hair at roundstart" thing, but it was recognized that this felt bad and required a lot of convincing and in-round time to make work. I think this equally exists in going to genetics and trying to convince them at roundstart to stop scanning the genes of some random monkey and finishing roundstart research and instead set your character's skin to a specific set of RGB codes.
Secondly, of course limits must always be in place when it comes to characters. We can't have people play anything and everything just because they know their way around the character editor, but I would say that the options granted by making humans various RGB-colors are relatively limited and already possible via genetics. I don't understand why the color options available at genetics couldn't be made a roundstart option if people are going to just go to genetics every shift and get the same thing done. It feels functionally identical and moreso like the option is being locked behind a timegate and the presence of a geneticist or MD with proper knowledge than anything else. This is the same thing every monkey player does on the RP servers, and it can lead to awkward moments of seeing characters in a form they're not intended to be in. Though the monkey mutantrace is banned from roundstart for a few obvious reasons- I don't think that having RGB-skin would have the same balance concerns and wouldn't pose a problem at roundstart.
Lastly, I don't enjoy the idea of reagent interactions causing changes in a character's skin color. It feels awkwardly meta to start bathing in some random chemical to become red, and now you need to hope even more players are willing to play along just to get your character looking as intended if you don't have roundstart access to those chemicals. If they're offered alongside the trait/genetics, then that's fine. But I'd prefer if they weren't the only option.
I really think this PR, as a trait, makes perfect sense. We have something similar in the limb picker during character creation, which prevents the awkward shuffle of characters with recurring robotic limbs to robotics every shift, since it's something unchanging about their character and relatively inconsequential(though, the more powerful limbs come at a cost). I personally don't see a difference between the two, since the gameplay impact is minimal, they both reduce roundstart tedium for the player, and come with a meta cost of trait points which impact you in other ways.
Honestly, I'd really love a testmerge of this PR, as mentioned in my last post. We don't know how the trait will impact crew culture and the sorts of characters people make until it's actually in action and everyone has access to it. I'm still not sure whether or not I'd want it long-term, but I think that a lot of the reasons proposed against it, and its alternatives(just go to genetics), aren't things I agree with personally.
Just my opinion, I'm down to hear more from others.