Goonhub
05-29-2024, 02:14 PM
I generally disagree with the idea that hunger and thirst "encourage" RP any more than hygiene. Hunger and thirst have never been effective motives for me, since they're largely unnoticeable and easy to forget. It's easy to get caught up in your job or any number of tasks over the course of a round. Meanwhile, the hygiene motive has consistently grabbed my attention and reminded me of my character's "needs." The fact that it is so noticeable and is tied to specific destinations on the station, requiring you to move around, is exactly what makes it work so well for me. The status effect, while completely harmless, gets people to move.
Similar to how a character walking up to you with bloody hands or while visibly injured provides an easy thread to react off of, hygiene provides a similar hint to the state of the station or that individual's shift. RP scenarios have started with my character being sweaty and overworked, then someone choosing to react. Like how eating food by itself isn't social, a lot of the actions that surround it can be, and I believe the same can be said with hygiene. Hygiene might not benefit from a high-traffic area like the bar, but that doesn't mean it's inherently a solitary motive that "takes you away from the RP."
You can invite your co-workers to the showers WITHOUT it being weird, I promise. No, I'm not saying showering with people. It's actually because of a desire for privacy that I started the habit of inviting a co-worker or two to come to the showers to watch the door. Which, I believe in large part, made an otherwise innocuous task way more fun and social for me. Sure, the actual showering part will be over in seconds, but like Lord_earthfire has said, it's all about the journey and not the destination. Walking opens up many opportunities for things to see, talk about, interact with, etc. It's inevitable that you'll encounter others along the way. Of course, this isn't exclusive to hygiene, but the real superpower of the hygiene trait is that people really just hate being stinky. Even if someone's been a hermit the entire round, they'll likely head to the showers at some point. My own experiences with getting co-workers out of Medbay to shower have proven to me that there is some social merit to the task. Whether it was chatting with people nearby or my buddy mysteriously disappearing from the door after being lured into maintenance, you'd be surprised at what can happen just by lingering around the shower entrance for more than a couple seconds.
My thoughts on motives are heavily influenced by playing medical; showering was the one reliable thing that would get a couple of the doctors out when it came to treating motives, which is largely why I don't think hunger or thirst can fill that same niche. Even if you planned to address those motives, you may reach for the more convenient options, while nearby showers took some legwork.
Because of this, I'm of the opinion that the "disruptiveness" of hygiene is a plus. It is your choice as to what you prioritize. If you just can't stand the stink lines, the RP doesn't have to end; you can move the conversation to a new location to get yourself clean or just ask to be excused for a minute. Stopping what you're doing to go somewhere else for a moment is largely a good thing.
The bar, cafeteria, and vending machines are all very easy to identify, especially in the case of the bar. Depending on the map, showers are plentiful but largely hidden away in little nooks behind featureless doors and walls, with no sign as to what they are until you open them. It makes sense that people have a difficult time finding them. That's more of a map problem, and it would be easy to fix with some signs on the floors or walls, similar to real-world public bathrooms.
I think Solenoid's post from the previous thread lays out my thoughts on this well. Like a lot of things in the game, it's not going to directly make you RP with others; I believe it's open-ended and requires some amount of input from a player. Much like how "useless" mechanics can be used as a prop or backdrop for some RP. I think the little push hygiene gives by moving you outside your department can lead down many different roads. That, by itself, makes it valuable to me.
There's absolutely room for improvement in the way hygiene reacts to clothing or puddles. I think that tweaking it could make the mechanic less irritating for people. I love the idea of products produced by chemistry or botany to assist in hygiene management, but as it is, I think hygiene succeeds at being a good RP motive.
Similar to how a character walking up to you with bloody hands or while visibly injured provides an easy thread to react off of, hygiene provides a similar hint to the state of the station or that individual's shift. RP scenarios have started with my character being sweaty and overworked, then someone choosing to react. Like how eating food by itself isn't social, a lot of the actions that surround it can be, and I believe the same can be said with hygiene. Hygiene might not benefit from a high-traffic area like the bar, but that doesn't mean it's inherently a solitary motive that "takes you away from the RP."
(04-16-2024, 02:44 AM)Kotlol Wrote: ...
...So to fix being filthy, everyone has to go to the showers.. but no roleplay ever happens there. Cause in real life, most people do not shower or bath with others. Privacy you know? ...
(05-27-2024, 06:13 AM)Glamurio Wrote: ...
...Hygiene doesn't work that way. You don't go showering with co-workers. ...
(05-27-2024, 11:11 AM)Cal Wrote: ...
I can invite people to go get food or a drink. I can't exactly invite people to go shower with me!
You can invite your co-workers to the showers WITHOUT it being weird, I promise. No, I'm not saying showering with people. It's actually because of a desire for privacy that I started the habit of inviting a co-worker or two to come to the showers to watch the door. Which, I believe in large part, made an otherwise innocuous task way more fun and social for me. Sure, the actual showering part will be over in seconds, but like Lord_earthfire has said, it's all about the journey and not the destination. Walking opens up many opportunities for things to see, talk about, interact with, etc. It's inevitable that you'll encounter others along the way. Of course, this isn't exclusive to hygiene, but the real superpower of the hygiene trait is that people really just hate being stinky. Even if someone's been a hermit the entire round, they'll likely head to the showers at some point. My own experiences with getting co-workers out of Medbay to shower have proven to me that there is some social merit to the task. Whether it was chatting with people nearby or my buddy mysteriously disappearing from the door after being lured into maintenance, you'd be surprised at what can happen just by lingering around the shower entrance for more than a couple seconds.
(05-27-2024, 08:02 AM)JOELED Wrote: I don't think hygiene does well for getting people out of their departments when it comes down to it. People who are willing to leave departments for motives already do so for the other two, and generally find other reasons to leave their department throughout a 90 minute round regardless. If they already don't want to be interrupted, hygiene doesn't do it -- they either ignore it, or find a less disruptive way to handle it (in-department showers like many departments have, or pools of water). ...
My thoughts on motives are heavily influenced by playing medical; showering was the one reliable thing that would get a couple of the doctors out when it came to treating motives, which is largely why I don't think hunger or thirst can fill that same niche. Even if you planned to address those motives, you may reach for the more convenient options, while nearby showers took some legwork.
Because of this, I'm of the opinion that the "disruptiveness" of hygiene is a plus. It is your choice as to what you prioritize. If you just can't stand the stink lines, the RP doesn't have to end; you can move the conversation to a new location to get yourself clean or just ask to be excused for a minute. Stopping what you're doing to go somewhere else for a moment is largely a good thing.
(05-25-2024, 02:33 PM)Glamurio Wrote: Food also works because it is abundant and easy to obtain. There's like 10 vending machines on every station and additionally, oftentimes food such as donuts is just lying about. We have a dedicated area that is publicly accessible (the kitchen) that is dedicated to making food. Throw in botany as well.
Showers, meanwhile, are often hidden in maintenance paths, behind crew quarters, close to the gym, they're not easy to find for newbees and even as a veteran I sometimes have to open up the map on some stations because I simply forgot...
The bar, cafeteria, and vending machines are all very easy to identify, especially in the case of the bar. Depending on the map, showers are plentiful but largely hidden away in little nooks behind featureless doors and walls, with no sign as to what they are until you open them. It makes sense that people have a difficult time finding them. That's more of a map problem, and it would be easy to fix with some signs on the floors or walls, similar to real-world public bathrooms.
(05-28-2024, 05:27 AM)Glamurio Wrote: ...
Much akin to what I said earlier, and I think most agree with. The issue is we're introducing a mechanic to "promote RP" which doesn't actually promote RP. ...
I think Solenoid's post from the previous thread lays out my thoughts on this well. Like a lot of things in the game, it's not going to directly make you RP with others; I believe it's open-ended and requires some amount of input from a player. Much like how "useless" mechanics can be used as a prop or backdrop for some RP. I think the little push hygiene gives by moving you outside your department can lead down many different roads. That, by itself, makes it valuable to me.
There's absolutely room for improvement in the way hygiene reacts to clothing or puddles. I think that tweaking it could make the mechanic less irritating for people. I love the idea of products produced by chemistry or botany to assist in hygiene management, but as it is, I think hygiene succeeds at being a good RP motive.