Goonhub
03-06-2024, 01:00 AM
I co-devved the chem rework/additions and have some scattered thoughts about the pharmacy and chemistry/doctor interaction. I don't think my opinion on this is the be-all-end-all or anything of course, I just have thought about this a whole lot. It's also quite a lot of rambling because I'm not very good at being brief, not necessarily because I have a lot to say.
Prior maps didn't always have full pharmacies, but they've (since I started playing in 2018) had chemistry dispensers in pathology before then, so they've *effectively* been self sustaining for chem production for as long as I've played. (Also Clarion and Destiny always had built-in pharmacies AFAIK). I think it's probably obvious that the choice to not give condensers or barrels specifically to medical is a way to make chemistry better at doing the job they're specifically built to be able to do, if doctors get to make chems they definitely shouldn't be as good at it as the role that's more dedicated to it. Future developments to chemistry should (in my view) reflect this and keep the pharmacy a few notches behind the Real Lab.
I greatly prefer maps that have integrated medbay and research, and I think maps like Donut2 or other maps that have them completely disconnected are basically non-starters for actual consistent teamplay between the two departments. Basically every interaction I've had where I've meaningfully worked together with someone (from either side) has been on maps where you can actually talk and see the scientists/doctors from your work, and maps where they're on opposite sides of the station just weren't built to facilitate this IMO. It can still happen, since the game is very open ended and players can pretty much will this into existence if they really want to, but many maps just make it much, much easier. The interlink also helps with this potentially, but it's just been my experience that directly talking has the biggest chance of success. This isn't realistically fixable but I think it's a non-insignificant hurdle for trying to design interdepartmental interaction in general.
I also think medbay isn't setup to really badly *want* most of what chemistry can provide, at least with consistency. I find that when playing doctor, synthflesh is very convenient and nice feeling to use, and pent has moments where it really shines, but 95% of what you treat is handled very very effectively by the baseline chems that you get tons and tons of. I think perf is often the most effective chem that you don't start with (MD locker not withstanding) that chemistry can make for you, since it can often trivialize medical situations that would otherwise be pretty tricky or time sensitive in my experience. I think all of this is hard to change; the game is fully balanced around styptic, sulfadiazine and charc, lowering general supply would feel unfun because when medical runs out of meds they like, can do literally nothing pretty often which feels pretty bad and would likely be very frustrating if it occurred more often than it does now. Think about how it feels in comparison when you play QM and miners drag in a crate full of highly valuable ore for you to sell; the payoff is very large and you're genuinely usually given a sizable boost, but chem doesn't have much capacity in my view to do something similar.
I feel many good coop experiences in games rely on symbiotic setups. Scientists don't actually get anything direct from medical that medical doesn't give to everyone else, and I think that could be *an* avenue for cooperation that's not just like, there for the sake of it. In the idealized version of interdepartmental cooperation, it should feel really cool to have an on-point chemist backing you up as a doctor, and then you can also give them back something for their trouble that they want, and you just cycle yourselves together and feel like a group working together to one goal, but this is really hard to implement in a way that doesn't feel forced in my experience.
This all sounds pretty negative but I don't think this is a lost cause or anything. When you're a chemist and someone thanks you for making synthflesh or something, it can feel great, and when you're a doctor and you get to use super duper chems it also feels pretty slick. I think trying to hone in on these elements (the fun parts) is tricky and touching the balance of medical supplies is delicate and sensitive. Trying to make producing medical chems more fun so working with medbay felt like a fun videogame and not a chore you had to do was one goal of the chemistry rework. I'd like for chemistry to feel like a useful and fun thing to have working behind you as a medical player without making medical players feel like we've stripped them of all their equipment or something, or like either department is being 'forced' into the cooperation. It's not easy though trust me!!
TLDR: I think it's possible to make chemistry and medical cooperation more fun and good but it's complicated and a lot of work. (I guess that may have been obvious)
Prior maps didn't always have full pharmacies, but they've (since I started playing in 2018) had chemistry dispensers in pathology before then, so they've *effectively* been self sustaining for chem production for as long as I've played. (Also Clarion and Destiny always had built-in pharmacies AFAIK). I think it's probably obvious that the choice to not give condensers or barrels specifically to medical is a way to make chemistry better at doing the job they're specifically built to be able to do, if doctors get to make chems they definitely shouldn't be as good at it as the role that's more dedicated to it. Future developments to chemistry should (in my view) reflect this and keep the pharmacy a few notches behind the Real Lab.
I greatly prefer maps that have integrated medbay and research, and I think maps like Donut2 or other maps that have them completely disconnected are basically non-starters for actual consistent teamplay between the two departments. Basically every interaction I've had where I've meaningfully worked together with someone (from either side) has been on maps where you can actually talk and see the scientists/doctors from your work, and maps where they're on opposite sides of the station just weren't built to facilitate this IMO. It can still happen, since the game is very open ended and players can pretty much will this into existence if they really want to, but many maps just make it much, much easier. The interlink also helps with this potentially, but it's just been my experience that directly talking has the biggest chance of success. This isn't realistically fixable but I think it's a non-insignificant hurdle for trying to design interdepartmental interaction in general.
I also think medbay isn't setup to really badly *want* most of what chemistry can provide, at least with consistency. I find that when playing doctor, synthflesh is very convenient and nice feeling to use, and pent has moments where it really shines, but 95% of what you treat is handled very very effectively by the baseline chems that you get tons and tons of. I think perf is often the most effective chem that you don't start with (MD locker not withstanding) that chemistry can make for you, since it can often trivialize medical situations that would otherwise be pretty tricky or time sensitive in my experience. I think all of this is hard to change; the game is fully balanced around styptic, sulfadiazine and charc, lowering general supply would feel unfun because when medical runs out of meds they like, can do literally nothing pretty often which feels pretty bad and would likely be very frustrating if it occurred more often than it does now. Think about how it feels in comparison when you play QM and miners drag in a crate full of highly valuable ore for you to sell; the payoff is very large and you're genuinely usually given a sizable boost, but chem doesn't have much capacity in my view to do something similar.
I feel many good coop experiences in games rely on symbiotic setups. Scientists don't actually get anything direct from medical that medical doesn't give to everyone else, and I think that could be *an* avenue for cooperation that's not just like, there for the sake of it. In the idealized version of interdepartmental cooperation, it should feel really cool to have an on-point chemist backing you up as a doctor, and then you can also give them back something for their trouble that they want, and you just cycle yourselves together and feel like a group working together to one goal, but this is really hard to implement in a way that doesn't feel forced in my experience.
This all sounds pretty negative but I don't think this is a lost cause or anything. When you're a chemist and someone thanks you for making synthflesh or something, it can feel great, and when you're a doctor and you get to use super duper chems it also feels pretty slick. I think trying to hone in on these elements (the fun parts) is tricky and touching the balance of medical supplies is delicate and sensitive. Trying to make producing medical chems more fun so working with medbay felt like a fun videogame and not a chore you had to do was one goal of the chemistry rework. I'd like for chemistry to feel like a useful and fun thing to have working behind you as a medical player without making medical players feel like we've stripped them of all their equipment or something, or like either department is being 'forced' into the cooperation. It's not easy though trust me!!
TLDR: I think it's possible to make chemistry and medical cooperation more fun and good but it's complicated and a lot of work. (I guess that may have been obvious)