Goonhub
01-12-2024, 10:27 PM
(I know this is a bit of a long post-- start reading at "in short" on the second-to-last paragraph for a TL;DR. Sorry!)
On about 5 of the 9 in-rotation maps, the kitchen has a dispenser specifically for the chef, with two variants. The first variant, HAPPY CHEF, dispenses condiments and other baking ingredients only; The other, called "kitchen fountain," has mostly the same stock but includes chems from the non-alcoholic bar dispenser. Lists of what each dispenser currently offers and where they're found are below:
HAPPY CHEF: Nadir, Kondaru, Donut2
ketchup
mustard
salt
pepper
gravy
chocolate
mint
chocolate milk
strawberry milk
Kitchen Fountain: Cog1, Donut3
All soda dispenser chems except ginger ale, grenadine, tomato, cherry
& all HAPPY CHEF ingredients except salt and gravy
#3587, #6363, #17062, and #17642 all proposed merging these two and/or adding them to all maps, but concerns were raised about how it might interfere with interdepartmental collaboration between the chef, bartender, and botany. I don't think this is a notable concern for chefs-- As TDHooligan pointed out, reagents by themselves are hardly used in recipes as more than frosting or filling; with the way the oven works, the chef benefits far more from the physical fruit itself (of a cherry, for example) than from an infinite supply of juice.
The way this concern was handled is confusing to me, too. If the Chef having access to Mint on-tap is a problem on Atlas, it's a problem on Nadir-- shouldn't it be removed from Nadir, at that point? Why isn't there parity between the two? I can get why not all maps need the soda fountain chems, because there's varying access the chef has to the bar, but why ketchup?
However... This is a fair concern for bartenders' collaboration with botany. What the bar creates IS directly affected by the funny juices you get from botany, and some drinks -- like Murdini and Prairie Fire -- absolutely should not be chemgrouped to hell, because they're strong-- there's mechanical incentive to get these drinks. Prairie Fire decays into a massive amount of capsaicin, and Murdini decays into a massive amount of ethanol. But these drinks are the exception, not the rule; almost all of the drinks that currently require Botany or QM collaboration are "flavor," both in-universe and in-worldbuilding, and the ingredients used to make most of them are only used in 2 or 3 recipes (2.6 on average), so even after waiting all that time the resulting expansion in drink selection is minimal.
Returning back to both the bar and the kitchen combined, I think the low value recieved from botany orders is the main reason why this PR has come up so many times-- Sure, these chems can be gotten from Botany, but if that's the only source then that interaction will never happen anyways. There's no point in waiting 30-40 minutes for Botany to grow you pepper, or mustard, or ketchup, or the ingredients for gravy, or flavored milk, because they really don't do much of anything. Hell, I rarely even see people use the condiment things that are out on the counter in front of them. The only one that I can see being desired in this list outside of the dispenser is mint, and that's only because it's used to make menthol (pretty good anti-BURN med).
In short, if you're only going to use the chems themselves, the effort expended to get these botany products is rarely if ever worth the reward proposed. This PR's been made four separate times, by four separate people, because there is value to providing these chems without the help of botany or cargo, far more value than is lost by gating these chems behind interdepartmental collaboration. Do these chems need to be provided on an infinite tap? Not at all-- #15308 proposed a set of "juice boxes" that would provide a limited and unreliable supply of these chems, and with the removal of honey and capsaicin, as well as some volume rebalances, it'd be healthy for both jobs' gameplay loop.
But if we're absolutely not going to get these chef dispensers on other maps, we at least need parity-- the existing chef dispensers should be removed as well.
On about 5 of the 9 in-rotation maps, the kitchen has a dispenser specifically for the chef, with two variants. The first variant, HAPPY CHEF, dispenses condiments and other baking ingredients only; The other, called "kitchen fountain," has mostly the same stock but includes chems from the non-alcoholic bar dispenser. Lists of what each dispenser currently offers and where they're found are below:
HAPPY CHEF: Nadir, Kondaru, Donut2
ketchup
mustard
salt
pepper
gravy
chocolate
mint
chocolate milk
strawberry milk
Kitchen Fountain: Cog1, Donut3
All soda dispenser chems except ginger ale, grenadine, tomato, cherry
& all HAPPY CHEF ingredients except salt and gravy
#3587, #6363, #17062, and #17642 all proposed merging these two and/or adding them to all maps, but concerns were raised about how it might interfere with interdepartmental collaboration between the chef, bartender, and botany. I don't think this is a notable concern for chefs-- As TDHooligan pointed out, reagents by themselves are hardly used in recipes as more than frosting or filling; with the way the oven works, the chef benefits far more from the physical fruit itself (of a cherry, for example) than from an infinite supply of juice.
The way this concern was handled is confusing to me, too. If the Chef having access to Mint on-tap is a problem on Atlas, it's a problem on Nadir-- shouldn't it be removed from Nadir, at that point? Why isn't there parity between the two? I can get why not all maps need the soda fountain chems, because there's varying access the chef has to the bar, but why ketchup?
However... This is a fair concern for bartenders' collaboration with botany. What the bar creates IS directly affected by the funny juices you get from botany, and some drinks -- like Murdini and Prairie Fire -- absolutely should not be chemgrouped to hell, because they're strong-- there's mechanical incentive to get these drinks. Prairie Fire decays into a massive amount of capsaicin, and Murdini decays into a massive amount of ethanol. But these drinks are the exception, not the rule; almost all of the drinks that currently require Botany or QM collaboration are "flavor," both in-universe and in-worldbuilding, and the ingredients used to make most of them are only used in 2 or 3 recipes (2.6 on average), so even after waiting all that time the resulting expansion in drink selection is minimal.
Returning back to both the bar and the kitchen combined, I think the low value recieved from botany orders is the main reason why this PR has come up so many times-- Sure, these chems can be gotten from Botany, but if that's the only source then that interaction will never happen anyways. There's no point in waiting 30-40 minutes for Botany to grow you pepper, or mustard, or ketchup, or the ingredients for gravy, or flavored milk, because they really don't do much of anything. Hell, I rarely even see people use the condiment things that are out on the counter in front of them. The only one that I can see being desired in this list outside of the dispenser is mint, and that's only because it's used to make menthol (pretty good anti-BURN med).
In short, if you're only going to use the chems themselves, the effort expended to get these botany products is rarely if ever worth the reward proposed. This PR's been made four separate times, by four separate people, because there is value to providing these chems without the help of botany or cargo, far more value than is lost by gating these chems behind interdepartmental collaboration. Do these chems need to be provided on an infinite tap? Not at all-- #15308 proposed a set of "juice boxes" that would provide a limited and unreliable supply of these chems, and with the removal of honey and capsaicin, as well as some volume rebalances, it'd be healthy for both jobs' gameplay loop.
But if we're absolutely not going to get these chef dispensers on other maps, we at least need parity-- the existing chef dispensers should be removed as well.