Goonhub
12-18-2023, 05:55 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2023, 05:57 AM by Kotlol. Edited 1 time in total.
Edit Reason: Responding to Kiki.
)
This ain't getting us nowhere... the discussion is devolving into "What is a captain?"
To some.. a staff assistant with AA.
To others.... the most trustworthy guy on the station.
To even others..... Just someone who's a slight step above HoP.
IN MY OPINION. What the role of the captain is doesn't matter in the eyes of the community. Let's look at the mechanics and reasons to exist and why an antagonist captain is bad.
1: Has the nuke codes. Wich only has use in 1 game mode where he can NEVER be an antagonist.
2: Has AI access like any head. Nothing differs from any head antagonist in that case.
3: Takes atleast 20 rounds of play to unlock. Unlike the HoS who is suppose to be the TRUE most trustworthy guy on the station and upholding the law, but to play that you gotta be whitelisted. (That process will be touched upon later)
4: Has either a good melee weapon...or an amazing gun. Wich NO OTHER HEAD HAS. The only one who rivals these are the HoS and NTSO. (Not counting detective as they gotta change guns ammo every time, but it's less powerful too.)
5: Has a strong armor wich is one of the most powerful armors in the game at round start.
6: Only head who has SECURITY ACCES from the start and can help open the armory. (thus making him effecitively a security assistant too)
So what makes me think the Captain should not be an antagonist like a traitor? Simply put... it's the fact they have AA as a traitor.
"But HoP can have AA too." ...Yea but the HoP not being in his office will get people who need ID changes or such getting watched at. The captain basically can do nothing all round and be fine... at the same time.. if they are needed the captain has the highest authority (cept for HoS on security matters)
This more RP related but still I'd like to add it.
I still say the detective being an antagonist is WAAAAAAAY more powerful then the captain in the long run for the tool kit the detective has. (Mostly the Det-nets can make security work nightmarish). But the captain is a strong second due the fact they are more prepared for combat.
But it's the fact that.. this guy can be in charge of security if there is no HoS... and that's the underlying problem.
"IF THERE IS NO HOS"
And how do you get to become a HOS? Applying and being white listed and the process requires... some difficulty.Since I applied twice and failed.. wich I am fine with. Also applications take a while to get through and you can only apply over a period of months.
This means one major thing in the game balance.
The guy who we need to truely trust for safety... isn't always there.. yet the captain is.. wich is an "expirenced" player.
While the HoS is a "Trusted" player by admins. But since not everyone wants to always play HoS.. since it's very stressful.. you don't always get those players.
While a captain is more "loosey goosey" and thus more favored.
But I like to add... a captain is one antag of many.. and that's the major problem.
While I think a detective is more powerful as an antagonist with their vr goggles. The captain's AA allows the captain to get anything they need without much eyebrows raised unlike a HoP who gave themselves AA.
If the HoP takes something from the Chief Engie? People will mention it.
Captain taking something from the chief engie? Well he has access so why not?
This is the distinct difference between anyother head vs captain antag. The captain by default isn't odd seeing them in rooms he technically has no business being in there. From my expirences in RP (Im not much of a classic guy).... the captain suddenly vanishing and not talking.. ain't odd. But hey he can't be antag there.
But with antag captains on the loose while other antags can do their stuff... it basically is worst then a detective going rampaging. The captain is heavier armed... has better starting utility and can hide in any room where security cannot wander in.. where as a detective has less acces then your standard security officer.
Anyway... I said enough in this super long post. I think the point is... nerfing captain as an antagonist or removing them from the list all together is fine.
And yes it is great for trust atomsphere.... I like to add that the captain is also the biggest target for most antagonists cause of the AA and PDA.
And in my opinion... Antags want to murder the captain and him being one... it just makes antags less likely to go after him...
That said.. give more use for the "Authitcation disk" so other antags want it cept Nukies!
Kiki:
"Captain should never be considered security same as HoP should never be playing as security either.
The only time I think it is okay is if there is zero security on station."
As someone who was a detective on RP as the only security and being an antagonist... yea I couldn't do it. Imagine your only security being the ANTAGONIST.
Now imagine that antagonist being THE CAPTAIN and ONLY SECURITY.
It is so heavily one sided it ain't funny.... So this more leaning towards: "Reasons why we cannot have an antagonist captain"
To some.. a staff assistant with AA.
To others.... the most trustworthy guy on the station.
To even others..... Just someone who's a slight step above HoP.
IN MY OPINION. What the role of the captain is doesn't matter in the eyes of the community. Let's look at the mechanics and reasons to exist and why an antagonist captain is bad.
1: Has the nuke codes. Wich only has use in 1 game mode where he can NEVER be an antagonist.
2: Has AI access like any head. Nothing differs from any head antagonist in that case.
3: Takes atleast 20 rounds of play to unlock. Unlike the HoS who is suppose to be the TRUE most trustworthy guy on the station and upholding the law, but to play that you gotta be whitelisted. (That process will be touched upon later)
4: Has either a good melee weapon...or an amazing gun. Wich NO OTHER HEAD HAS. The only one who rivals these are the HoS and NTSO. (Not counting detective as they gotta change guns ammo every time, but it's less powerful too.)
5: Has a strong armor wich is one of the most powerful armors in the game at round start.
6: Only head who has SECURITY ACCES from the start and can help open the armory. (thus making him effecitively a security assistant too)
So what makes me think the Captain should not be an antagonist like a traitor? Simply put... it's the fact they have AA as a traitor.
"But HoP can have AA too." ...Yea but the HoP not being in his office will get people who need ID changes or such getting watched at. The captain basically can do nothing all round and be fine... at the same time.. if they are needed the captain has the highest authority (cept for HoS on security matters)
This more RP related but still I'd like to add it.
I still say the detective being an antagonist is WAAAAAAAY more powerful then the captain in the long run for the tool kit the detective has. (Mostly the Det-nets can make security work nightmarish). But the captain is a strong second due the fact they are more prepared for combat.
But it's the fact that.. this guy can be in charge of security if there is no HoS... and that's the underlying problem.
"IF THERE IS NO HOS"
And how do you get to become a HOS? Applying and being white listed and the process requires... some difficulty.Since I applied twice and failed.. wich I am fine with. Also applications take a while to get through and you can only apply over a period of months.
This means one major thing in the game balance.
The guy who we need to truely trust for safety... isn't always there.. yet the captain is.. wich is an "expirenced" player.
While the HoS is a "Trusted" player by admins. But since not everyone wants to always play HoS.. since it's very stressful.. you don't always get those players.
While a captain is more "loosey goosey" and thus more favored.
But I like to add... a captain is one antag of many.. and that's the major problem.
While I think a detective is more powerful as an antagonist with their vr goggles. The captain's AA allows the captain to get anything they need without much eyebrows raised unlike a HoP who gave themselves AA.
If the HoP takes something from the Chief Engie? People will mention it.
Captain taking something from the chief engie? Well he has access so why not?
This is the distinct difference between anyother head vs captain antag. The captain by default isn't odd seeing them in rooms he technically has no business being in there. From my expirences in RP (Im not much of a classic guy).... the captain suddenly vanishing and not talking.. ain't odd. But hey he can't be antag there.
But with antag captains on the loose while other antags can do their stuff... it basically is worst then a detective going rampaging. The captain is heavier armed... has better starting utility and can hide in any room where security cannot wander in.. where as a detective has less acces then your standard security officer.
Anyway... I said enough in this super long post. I think the point is... nerfing captain as an antagonist or removing them from the list all together is fine.
And yes it is great for trust atomsphere.... I like to add that the captain is also the biggest target for most antagonists cause of the AA and PDA.
And in my opinion... Antags want to murder the captain and him being one... it just makes antags less likely to go after him...
That said.. give more use for the "Authitcation disk" so other antags want it cept Nukies!
Kiki:
"Captain should never be considered security same as HoP should never be playing as security either.
The only time I think it is okay is if there is zero security on station."
As someone who was a detective on RP as the only security and being an antagonist... yea I couldn't do it. Imagine your only security being the ANTAGONIST.
Now imagine that antagonist being THE CAPTAIN and ONLY SECURITY.
It is so heavily one sided it ain't funny.... So this more leaning towards: "Reasons why we cannot have an antagonist captain"