Goonhub
12-09-2023, 08:29 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2023, 08:36 PM by Ikea. Edited 3 times in total.)
Ill share my more specific thoughts on cloning later on but first two things I'd like to put out there. I'd like to point out for all of this, there's no guarantee Ill code any of this, so if anything in this thread in general sticks out to you, the reader, feel free to pr it.
1. Normally I find it more useful to focus balance proposals on classic, as classic tends to push mechanics more compared to roleplay, thus exacerbating a mechanics shortcomings. For prescan changes in specific, I think its more useful to focus on roleplay instead. On classic, it's a minority of people who get prescanned, a seventh at most (for a round of a bit under 50 people I witnessed as writing this, only 5 were scanned by the end of the round), on roleplay its closer to half (in general of course).
Additionally, Id argue that prescanning has in some ways more detrimental effects on roleplay then it does on classic, with cloning being much more reliable (both less sabotage, less busy cloner, and more competent doctors), and also the nature of roleplay doubles it's removal of oomph from a characters death. I'd like to point here one issue roleplay doesnt tend to have is the insta ratting, but thats largely just players culturally adapting to the downsides of prescanning on their own which isn't really a good thing. It's important to note while I used to play a lot of roleplay, that was a year ago and I do so much more infrequently now, this means that those who play roleplay's feedback here would be very appreciated.
2. I think proposals around increasing the sabotage you can do for cloning don't really work because they run into two different problems for both servers. For classic, it's just generally not worth it from a time perspective. Prescanning is just unusual on classic so chances are the person you killed isnt prescanned, and even if they were its more time effective to just kill more people. For roleplay its just kind of a dick move, the rounds are longer and people really value their characters. It just feels dickish to do, I don't know if other people dont do it for this reason (again rp people comment!!), but that's why I wouldn't/didn't do it.
I think the death alert sound is a good idea even if I think it isn't sufficient, if someone wants to find a good sound for it, ping me in imsanic with it and Ill get a pr up for it in a few days. I also think its fair that if we commit to making prescanning harder, we should probably also make gibbing harder (minimum explosion strength to gib), and make it easier to find bodies in space (Maybe some pod component for it and buffing the commsmaster thing?). I think the longer cloning idea isn't one Id object too but I dont think it'd help too much. For classic, chances are it isnt worth spending time to sabotage cloning even then for most people. For roleplay, time doesnt cost much nor does cloning tend to be super busy so I dont think itd have much of an impact.
I'm also very wary of disk proposals, on classic prescanning doesnt have too much impact so I dont think itd change much, but on roleplay I can easily see it backfire by making records a lot more secure (harder and slower to get rid of, also makes silicons largely unable to get rid of them which tends to be the main method of sabotage), and with doctors being permanently bored on roleplay they have time to prepare to get enough disks for everyone to be scanned anyways.
I think what my slightly harder change to implement ideal prescan change would be would limit the amount of prescans you can do. Limit the amount you can have scanned to like 7 people, that way you aren't motivated to scan as many people as possible. This also makes being prescanned more selective which can open its way to conflict, this may lead to toxicity but I think in general itll be the good kind of conflict, where antags delete records so there's room for them to be scanned. You can have a system where you can go over the limit but those records will decay, but eh it wont change much on classic and roleplay docs will generally be able to just heal defects anyways so it wont change much there with that.
1. Normally I find it more useful to focus balance proposals on classic, as classic tends to push mechanics more compared to roleplay, thus exacerbating a mechanics shortcomings. For prescan changes in specific, I think its more useful to focus on roleplay instead. On classic, it's a minority of people who get prescanned, a seventh at most (for a round of a bit under 50 people I witnessed as writing this, only 5 were scanned by the end of the round), on roleplay its closer to half (in general of course).
Additionally, Id argue that prescanning has in some ways more detrimental effects on roleplay then it does on classic, with cloning being much more reliable (both less sabotage, less busy cloner, and more competent doctors), and also the nature of roleplay doubles it's removal of oomph from a characters death. I'd like to point here one issue roleplay doesnt tend to have is the insta ratting, but thats largely just players culturally adapting to the downsides of prescanning on their own which isn't really a good thing. It's important to note while I used to play a lot of roleplay, that was a year ago and I do so much more infrequently now, this means that those who play roleplay's feedback here would be very appreciated.
2. I think proposals around increasing the sabotage you can do for cloning don't really work because they run into two different problems for both servers. For classic, it's just generally not worth it from a time perspective. Prescanning is just unusual on classic so chances are the person you killed isnt prescanned, and even if they were its more time effective to just kill more people. For roleplay its just kind of a dick move, the rounds are longer and people really value their characters. It just feels dickish to do, I don't know if other people dont do it for this reason (again rp people comment!!), but that's why I wouldn't/didn't do it.
I think the death alert sound is a good idea even if I think it isn't sufficient, if someone wants to find a good sound for it, ping me in imsanic with it and Ill get a pr up for it in a few days. I also think its fair that if we commit to making prescanning harder, we should probably also make gibbing harder (minimum explosion strength to gib), and make it easier to find bodies in space (Maybe some pod component for it and buffing the commsmaster thing?). I think the longer cloning idea isn't one Id object too but I dont think it'd help too much. For classic, chances are it isnt worth spending time to sabotage cloning even then for most people. For roleplay, time doesnt cost much nor does cloning tend to be super busy so I dont think itd have much of an impact.
I'm also very wary of disk proposals, on classic prescanning doesnt have too much impact so I dont think itd change much, but on roleplay I can easily see it backfire by making records a lot more secure (harder and slower to get rid of, also makes silicons largely unable to get rid of them which tends to be the main method of sabotage), and with doctors being permanently bored on roleplay they have time to prepare to get enough disks for everyone to be scanned anyways.
I think what my slightly harder change to implement ideal prescan change would be would limit the amount of prescans you can do. Limit the amount you can have scanned to like 7 people, that way you aren't motivated to scan as many people as possible. This also makes being prescanned more selective which can open its way to conflict, this may lead to toxicity but I think in general itll be the good kind of conflict, where antags delete records so there's room for them to be scanned. You can have a system where you can go over the limit but those records will decay, but eh it wont change much on classic and roleplay docs will generally be able to just heal defects anyways so it wont change much there with that.