Goonhub
09-13-2023, 02:42 PM
Hello, first post on this forum. My name's durin and I've been playing on Goonstation for a little while now. I'm not quite sure where to place this thread since I haven't seen any Feedback sections, so I'm posting in here. I've been running into a lot of minor issues while playing borg since shift+click got removed, that have been making my game experience a lot more awkward, boring, and often annoying lately. So to address these problems, provide some suggestions and give some sort of feedback regarding #15759, I'm here (not posting on Suggestions since this is also feedback. I don't know if it's the right place but anyhow).
Please mind that I'm not writing this to create drama around cyborg balance or pointlessly complain. This post is about exclusively cyborg QoL and ways I'm suggesting improvements upon it - ways that could help make the game more fun for veterans and new borg mains alike.
0. My credentials
I've been maining cyborg for, give or take, a full year and two months. I'm well acquainted to how cyborgs can impact the game and most ways how they do it.
To add some background about myself, I'm a 4 main.
1. Shift+click, and what it did
With shift+click interactions, a cyborg could:
- Climb ladders
- Quickly drag items
- 'Pet' critters
- Ring bells/interact with stationary items eg. paper bins
- Take items from containers eg. toolboxes
- Punch windows (and I'd like to personally add, inefficiently punch them)
There might've been some I missed while writing this, but these were the main functions of shift+click.
With the loss of shift+click, every single one of these functions were gone; last I heard while drafting this post, ladder interactions were added again, and some of the others may or may not be added later on. My issue with the removal of these 'features' (bugs), in short, is that they weren't harmful, problematic or in any manner gamebreaking/actually exploitable, and for as long as they were around, they made the experience better (as opposed to, like bugs commonly would, make it worse).
In not so short, I'll address most of these 'features' brought by shift+click and how they improved the game, presenting common scenarios, and comparing how shift+click and the lack thereof respectively impacted said scenarios. Sorry, playing bug's advocate. Please bear with me.
QUICK DRAG
COMMON SCENARIO: A cyborg has a stack of things they need to sort, separate and/or move elsewhere.
PRE BUG PATCH: The cyborg spams shift+click to drag stacks around quickly.
POST BUG PATCH: The cyborg has to either 1. ctrl+click then click a tile to pull one at a time, OR 2. find a crate. In some cases, they might have to do both, which wastes time and is frustrating to the player.
MY CASE: Quick drag makes most, if not all the jobs much, much more pleasant.
"PET" CRITTERS
COMMON SCENARIO: A cyborg is in front of a capybara/baby seal/bird/Dolly/cute critter.
PRE BUG PATCH: With shift+click, a cyborg could 'pet' a critter (it didn't actually show any text, it wasn't even actual patting, but the green help intent hand showed over the critter, signalling a pat. Ish. Sort of.)
POST BUG PATCH: The cyborg does nothing. The player stares at the screen.
MY CASE: pleasepleaseplspls i need to pet the capy plsplssplsplssssplssssspls
RING BELLS/INTERACT WITH STATIONARY ITEMS
COMMON SCENARIO 1: The head of Personnel OR the chef has placed their service bell on an easily accessible counter/table.
PRE BUG PATCH: A cyborg could shift+click it and ask for service.
POST BUG PATCH: They cannot ring bells anymore.
MY CASE: I'm a roleplayer. Asking for services is fun! At least, more fun than having 'yell for the HoP' as the only option.
COMMON SCENARIO 2: A human asked for a piece of paper OR the cyborg wants paper to write on.
PRE BUG PATCH: Shift+click to interact with the paper bin - and SO many other things a cyborg could interact with using the 'function'.
POST BUG PATCH: Cyborgs are now restricted to the thermal paper typewriter/civilian (maybe brobocop or some other if I recall) module paper bins. Mildly annoying, and unnecessarily restrictive.
MY CASE: I don't think limiting borg's access to paper bins will prevent the Paper Apocalypse. In face of such inevitablity, they should be allowed to use those, I think.
TAKE ITEMS FROM CONTAINERS
This is a huuuuge pet peeve. In fact, it's the #1 reason why I'm writing this in the first place.
COMMON SCENARIO: The cyborg needs to take an implement/tool/object from a container (toolbox, O2 box, package box from cargo (eg. mime apparel box)) for one reason or another - such as a human asking for a wrench, or themselves ordering clothes in a box for Silicon Fashion.
PRE BUG PATCH: The cyborg could drag+click the container to itself, showing what's in it, then shift+clicking to retrieve an object of their choice.
POST BUG PATCH: The cyborg has to ask for help. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Not only it annoys the roboticist and every other hapless person that has to help them, it is unironically frustrating, inconvenient and awkward.
MY CASE: I shouldn't have to humiliate myself for the 6th time in 40 game minutes to get a small item from a box.
PUNCH WINDOWS
COMMON SCENARIO: A cyborg is near a window/catwalk.
PRE BUG PATCH: The cyborg can punch the window/kick the catwalk. While destructive, punching the window was several times less effective than using an extinguisher on it.
POST BUG PATCH: The cyborg can't punch windows or kick catwalks.
MY CASE: I don't actually advocate for this. This can go, honestly. Might have been good for RP once in a while, but it wasn't as essential as some other 'features' included in here.
So these are some of the common scenarios, and what tends to happen in such cases. Mind you, these are all coming from a full roleplay perspective- like I mentioned before, I'm a 4 main, and I have pretty much no experience in Goon Classic or any non-RP form.
The point I'd like to make with each and every one of these, and lastly address some alarming takes I've seen post #15759, is that, well...
In Space Station 13, almost all parts of the game are oriented towards characters that can grab things/use things on hand. This tends to cause unintentional oversights related to other in-game individuals' lack of capabilities, such as individuals without hands (cyborgs not being able to do most things in the game), or people with only one arm having an unnecessarily awkward experience due to game mechanics tailored towards ingame two-handed people - mind you, I still defend both of these cases' rights to be awkward-- people have the right to want to play a more challenging, different experience, which is what certain limb traits and cyborgs are all about, BUT, my defense is, different should not equal worse, nor it shouldn't equal counterintuitive.
WERE THESE EXPLOITS?
No. In one year and two-ish months of borg experience, I did not see these be used exploitatively at all, not even once.
WERE THESE UNINTENTIONAL FEATURES?
Yes, but as far as unintentional features go, they could easily be called 'happy accidents'. They made the game experience a lot richer.
BORGS SHOULDN'T HAVE HANDS.
I agree that cyborgs should stay handless, but they shouldn't stay helpless. And, honestly, a little hopeless.
Removing QoL because they're 'supposed to be without hands' isn't something I can agree with.
My suggestion is that in some way or another, these 'features' make a return to the game, because while they were bugs, they also happened to be some of the most necessary QoL bugs a bunch of cyborg players had. Playing without them sucks so bad I had to get over my social anxiety and talk about it here.
Anyway, thank you for having me. Hopefully this bunch of text isn't too boring or too convoluted to read. Here's a boogiebot!
Please mind that I'm not writing this to create drama around cyborg balance or pointlessly complain. This post is about exclusively cyborg QoL and ways I'm suggesting improvements upon it - ways that could help make the game more fun for veterans and new borg mains alike.
0. My credentials
I've been maining cyborg for, give or take, a full year and two months. I'm well acquainted to how cyborgs can impact the game and most ways how they do it.
To add some background about myself, I'm a 4 main.
1. Shift+click, and what it did
With shift+click interactions, a cyborg could:
- Climb ladders
- Quickly drag items
- 'Pet' critters
- Ring bells/interact with stationary items eg. paper bins
- Take items from containers eg. toolboxes
- Punch windows (and I'd like to personally add, inefficiently punch them)
There might've been some I missed while writing this, but these were the main functions of shift+click.
With the loss of shift+click, every single one of these functions were gone; last I heard while drafting this post, ladder interactions were added again, and some of the others may or may not be added later on. My issue with the removal of these 'features' (bugs), in short, is that they weren't harmful, problematic or in any manner gamebreaking/actually exploitable, and for as long as they were around, they made the experience better (as opposed to, like bugs commonly would, make it worse).
In not so short, I'll address most of these 'features' brought by shift+click and how they improved the game, presenting common scenarios, and comparing how shift+click and the lack thereof respectively impacted said scenarios. Sorry, playing bug's advocate. Please bear with me.
QUICK DRAG
COMMON SCENARIO: A cyborg has a stack of things they need to sort, separate and/or move elsewhere.
PRE BUG PATCH: The cyborg spams shift+click to drag stacks around quickly.
POST BUG PATCH: The cyborg has to either 1. ctrl+click then click a tile to pull one at a time, OR 2. find a crate. In some cases, they might have to do both, which wastes time and is frustrating to the player.
MY CASE: Quick drag makes most, if not all the jobs much, much more pleasant.
"PET" CRITTERS
COMMON SCENARIO: A cyborg is in front of a capybara/baby seal/bird/Dolly/cute critter.
PRE BUG PATCH: With shift+click, a cyborg could 'pet' a critter (it didn't actually show any text, it wasn't even actual patting, but the green help intent hand showed over the critter, signalling a pat. Ish. Sort of.)
POST BUG PATCH: The cyborg does nothing. The player stares at the screen.
MY CASE: pleasepleaseplspls i need to pet the capy plsplssplsplssssplssssspls
RING BELLS/INTERACT WITH STATIONARY ITEMS
COMMON SCENARIO 1: The head of Personnel OR the chef has placed their service bell on an easily accessible counter/table.
PRE BUG PATCH: A cyborg could shift+click it and ask for service.
POST BUG PATCH: They cannot ring bells anymore.
MY CASE: I'm a roleplayer. Asking for services is fun! At least, more fun than having 'yell for the HoP' as the only option.
COMMON SCENARIO 2: A human asked for a piece of paper OR the cyborg wants paper to write on.
PRE BUG PATCH: Shift+click to interact with the paper bin - and SO many other things a cyborg could interact with using the 'function'.
POST BUG PATCH: Cyborgs are now restricted to the thermal paper typewriter/civilian (maybe brobocop or some other if I recall) module paper bins. Mildly annoying, and unnecessarily restrictive.
MY CASE: I don't think limiting borg's access to paper bins will prevent the Paper Apocalypse. In face of such inevitablity, they should be allowed to use those, I think.
TAKE ITEMS FROM CONTAINERS
This is a huuuuge pet peeve. In fact, it's the #1 reason why I'm writing this in the first place.
COMMON SCENARIO: The cyborg needs to take an implement/tool/object from a container (toolbox, O2 box, package box from cargo (eg. mime apparel box)) for one reason or another - such as a human asking for a wrench, or themselves ordering clothes in a box for Silicon Fashion.
PRE BUG PATCH: The cyborg could drag+click the container to itself, showing what's in it, then shift+clicking to retrieve an object of their choice.
POST BUG PATCH: The cyborg has to ask for help. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Not only it annoys the roboticist and every other hapless person that has to help them, it is unironically frustrating, inconvenient and awkward.
MY CASE: I shouldn't have to humiliate myself for the 6th time in 40 game minutes to get a small item from a box.
PUNCH WINDOWS
COMMON SCENARIO: A cyborg is near a window/catwalk.
PRE BUG PATCH: The cyborg can punch the window/kick the catwalk. While destructive, punching the window was several times less effective than using an extinguisher on it.
POST BUG PATCH: The cyborg can't punch windows or kick catwalks.
MY CASE: I don't actually advocate for this. This can go, honestly. Might have been good for RP once in a while, but it wasn't as essential as some other 'features' included in here.
So these are some of the common scenarios, and what tends to happen in such cases. Mind you, these are all coming from a full roleplay perspective- like I mentioned before, I'm a 4 main, and I have pretty much no experience in Goon Classic or any non-RP form.
The point I'd like to make with each and every one of these, and lastly address some alarming takes I've seen post #15759, is that, well...
In Space Station 13, almost all parts of the game are oriented towards characters that can grab things/use things on hand. This tends to cause unintentional oversights related to other in-game individuals' lack of capabilities, such as individuals without hands (cyborgs not being able to do most things in the game), or people with only one arm having an unnecessarily awkward experience due to game mechanics tailored towards ingame two-handed people - mind you, I still defend both of these cases' rights to be awkward-- people have the right to want to play a more challenging, different experience, which is what certain limb traits and cyborgs are all about, BUT, my defense is, different should not equal worse, nor it shouldn't equal counterintuitive.
WERE THESE EXPLOITS?
No. In one year and two-ish months of borg experience, I did not see these be used exploitatively at all, not even once.
WERE THESE UNINTENTIONAL FEATURES?
Yes, but as far as unintentional features go, they could easily be called 'happy accidents'. They made the game experience a lot richer.
BORGS SHOULDN'T HAVE HANDS.
I agree that cyborgs should stay handless, but they shouldn't stay helpless. And, honestly, a little hopeless.
Removing QoL because they're 'supposed to be without hands' isn't something I can agree with.
My suggestion is that in some way or another, these 'features' make a return to the game, because while they were bugs, they also happened to be some of the most necessary QoL bugs a bunch of cyborg players had. Playing without them sucks so bad I had to get over my social anxiety and talk about it here.
Anyway, thank you for having me. Hopefully this bunch of text isn't too boring or too convoluted to read. Here's a boogiebot!