Goonhub
07-30-2023, 05:55 AM
We did over analysis this and TDH's suggestion is not bad, but it feels half way.
So after re-reading things. I'd like to add and clarify some concerns shown by the community that I now just perfectly notice.
(again I am for this addition, but let me phraze this so I can help things out.)
Let me say this: "Borging is suppose to be "BAD" and a last thing you want to do."
Those who want to be a cyborg, need to consider the gameplay limitations they get.
Thus losing a gender and making them more dehumanizing is suppose to be a state of mind you get set in.
Yet we allow personalities, custom names and customsation, but at the same time we remove gender and restrict them by laws and unable to wear everything like shoes and such.
Thus.. who cares about genders.. but I like to use the Lizardman argument and move it to another level.. Monkeys.
Monkey players always needs genetics to change them, we do not allow them at entry due to various reasons but also "Monkey is suppose to be bad"
And in jobs it's "Clown suppose to be bad"
And in traits "Pug is suppose to be bad."
Gameplay wise these all are suppose to be choices or outcomes that are ment to handicap you or give you a disadvantage. Socially or gameplay wise.
And yet through out the years... this all has been changed to be looser and more welcoming.
Mutant races, no longer are treated as non humans.
Monkeys get the "Sentient" sub title to be defined as human.
Pugs are iniating your own personal hard mode...
So this concern of adding gender feels like a nudge into giving borgs things that might be considered a step to making borgs "less a bad outcome"
Like a monkey being a spawning trait with a translator. Or a clown having a paycheck. (How I like to compare it, not the best but hey)
But also how "important" is gender as a borg? Especially since human players can "order it away?" and being a jerk (cause they are playing a borg hating antagonist, remember conspirators have a goal to get rid of all electricity)
Now to add to TDH's suggestion.
While it would please both sides.. It doesn't.
It infact makes both sides upset.
Cause those who will ignore the OOC gender, will just keep saying it, thus disrespecting the player.
And those same people who will ignore it, will be slammed, since they want to RP someone who disrespects Cyborg players, annoying them.
Let alone how much admins will have to treat on the greyline, upsetting both parties along the way.
I still recommend going with a full IC addition and the reason being: "Cyborgs are genderfluid and assigning them a gender helps organics to not be afraid of them"
So lore wise, they have genders so they are slightly more humanized so people who have fear of borgs can relate to them better. You can see it as NT doing this to "decrease fear of cyborgs taking over their jobs" kinda hook.
I think TDH's suggestion is 100% Noble... it's a non pleaser that just makes more problems in the long run.
Either players have to 100% disconnect their cyborgs treatment from real life (wich is how I do things)
Or.. we just allow it and accept that the way you treat your fellow IC crewmates might rub off on other players in real life. (Wich is also a valid point)
This is the true crutch of the argument. "Dissaccioation vs Connecting to your charater"
I know this sounds too deep, but.. this is why half half won't do this.
So after re-reading things. I'd like to add and clarify some concerns shown by the community that I now just perfectly notice.
(again I am for this addition, but let me phraze this so I can help things out.)
Let me say this: "Borging is suppose to be "BAD" and a last thing you want to do."
Those who want to be a cyborg, need to consider the gameplay limitations they get.
Thus losing a gender and making them more dehumanizing is suppose to be a state of mind you get set in.
Yet we allow personalities, custom names and customsation, but at the same time we remove gender and restrict them by laws and unable to wear everything like shoes and such.
Thus.. who cares about genders.. but I like to use the Lizardman argument and move it to another level.. Monkeys.
Monkey players always needs genetics to change them, we do not allow them at entry due to various reasons but also "Monkey is suppose to be bad"
And in jobs it's "Clown suppose to be bad"
And in traits "Pug is suppose to be bad."
Gameplay wise these all are suppose to be choices or outcomes that are ment to handicap you or give you a disadvantage. Socially or gameplay wise.
And yet through out the years... this all has been changed to be looser and more welcoming.
Mutant races, no longer are treated as non humans.
Monkeys get the "Sentient" sub title to be defined as human.
Pugs are iniating your own personal hard mode...
So this concern of adding gender feels like a nudge into giving borgs things that might be considered a step to making borgs "less a bad outcome"
Like a monkey being a spawning trait with a translator. Or a clown having a paycheck. (How I like to compare it, not the best but hey)
But also how "important" is gender as a borg? Especially since human players can "order it away?" and being a jerk (cause they are playing a borg hating antagonist, remember conspirators have a goal to get rid of all electricity)
Now to add to TDH's suggestion.
While it would please both sides.. It doesn't.
It infact makes both sides upset.
Cause those who will ignore the OOC gender, will just keep saying it, thus disrespecting the player.
And those same people who will ignore it, will be slammed, since they want to RP someone who disrespects Cyborg players, annoying them.
Let alone how much admins will have to treat on the greyline, upsetting both parties along the way.
I still recommend going with a full IC addition and the reason being: "Cyborgs are genderfluid and assigning them a gender helps organics to not be afraid of them"
So lore wise, they have genders so they are slightly more humanized so people who have fear of borgs can relate to them better. You can see it as NT doing this to "decrease fear of cyborgs taking over their jobs" kinda hook.
I think TDH's suggestion is 100% Noble... it's a non pleaser that just makes more problems in the long run.
Either players have to 100% disconnect their cyborgs treatment from real life (wich is how I do things)
Or.. we just allow it and accept that the way you treat your fellow IC crewmates might rub off on other players in real life. (Wich is also a valid point)
This is the true crutch of the argument. "Dissaccioation vs Connecting to your charater"
I know this sounds too deep, but.. this is why half half won't do this.