"The Stun META discussion Thread"

[Kotlol]

Okay, I think after the talk about "STUN META" so much in forums and discord let's put a topic in here to discuss it in futher detail.

Acording to most.. there is a powerful "STUN META" going around where people rather stun eachother then kill eachother.
Infact you can chose to kill but there are many ways to deal with it where as STUN lacks most ways to counter.

In my own observations.. I think the "STUN META" is okay, but... over the years "STUN" has indeed grown in power, but not due to "STUN" getting buffed.
But other things being changed...

Mutations were overhauled to make more risk rewards.. thus turning things like SMES HUMAN less effective against Stun. Since normally it makes you immune to most stuns. This also applies to Arcfiends to some degree. (Roach also is no longer 100% immune due to the nuclear reactor being added)
There are also some other changes but I couldn't verify.

Due to this "stun" has been a more go to option to take out oppenents...but...

On the other side.
Security has been getting more robust and working together.
Antags been mostly new and unable to know how to counteract stun.

I think most people will say this: "Stun has not enough counterplay"
Or: "It takes too much to counterplay stun without pay off"

So is it true? Can we compile everything that counters stun and what you can do to counteract lethals to begin with?
Now since I do not know the statistic of every item or how to find it. (Cause im Lazy)
I am going to ask people here on the forum to help with this 1st step.

In the meantime we can discuss all we like about this.

UPDATE 1: Some statistics from Lord_earthfire:

Well for some numbers, if i got anything wrong correctio s are well appreciated:

A stun baton, activated, got a stamina drain of 130. With a stamina regen of 10/s, this leaves a ~6 second window for two hits to connect to drive someone standing still/walking onto the ground. Even more time if they try to run or fight. And running us not an option due to desorient.

Th striken through information information is FALSE. Sorry, mixed stun_resist and desorient_protection

A csaber gets you into crit with 2 hits, but to actually make you unable to fight back we are talking about around 3-4. A Katana makes you unable to fight back with 2-3 hits. You are still able to run away, though.

From my opinion, stun batons got a better TTK than traitor weaponry against unprepared crew and security that get jumped on and cannot eat their robust donuts.
UPDATE: Jep, my information was blatantly false, like i found out. Stim chems actually don't affect the stamina redcution AT ALL. They just affect the time you are stunned and until you get up. And the stamina regen, which is for most chemicals too small to help against most stuns.

UPDATE 2: Ranged weapon data added:

Cheffie

The softens the blow message is just because of how projectiles work and doesn't actually change the stam damage, only body disorienate resist affects stam damage taken.
Heres the normal weapons stam damage pointblank, how many shots they get on that mode (with a 200pu cell) and how many shots to down:
Baton does 130 stam damage (8 hits, 2 hits to down)
Taser does 80 normal (8 shots, 3 shots to down), 240 burst (2 shots, 1 shot to down)
Taser shotgun does 200 normal (8 shots, 1 shot to down), 110 slug (6 shots, 2 shots to down)
Taser SMG does 42.5 automatic (25 shots, 6~7 shots to down), 144 burst (5 shots, 2 shots to down)
Dets rounds are the same as normal taser shots.
Wavegun not compared here because its gimmick is being better further away so a pointblank test won't be fair.