Goonhub
09-29-2022, 01:00 PM
I don't have a huge amount of useful info to add, but here is my two cents.
TLDR: Valid hunting bad, crew should only be fighting antags if absolutely necessary(IE sec isn't around/haven't arrived). Defending antags from being arrested bad, even if you have an IC relationship. Vamp, ling, and arc are in a bad spot for RP and could really use a bit of a change. Traitor and wraith good for RP.
I personally think that the new push to have antags and sec be more aggressive to each other, while good in theory, has only led to a rise in validhunting. I've seen more non-security crew members hearing about antags over the radio, and sprinting to go fight the antagonist. It makes having actual RP with security even harder as crew members try to escalate both parties or just flat out attack the antag mid talk.
When it comes to IC relationships, You obviously should not be defending an antag from security, at all. If your IC Parent/partner/whatever is being arrested and is clearly an antag, you should not be fighting sec. Want to ask to bring them food while they are in a cell? want to ask to speak to them or visit? sure. Actively shove sec over to let them get away? no, that's essentially self antagging.
If you are in the room and someone you have a IC relationship is being murdered? You can and should try and get them out of their with you while calling security (Unless sec is there already). you shouldn't be trying to kill that antag completely, just get them away from you. But that shouldn't be a IC relationship thing, if your in the bar, and someone walks up and starts murdering a staff assistant in view of everyone? call security and tell them to cut it out, give them a few shoves. You wouldn't and shouldn't just let someone be murdered directly in front of you. Antags should be killing at least somewhat secretly, or expect resistance from the crew around them.
A lot of issues i see around antags also comes down to the lack of actual RP options. Vampires, Lings, and Arcfiends are very limited into their non-combat abilities. Arcfiends have wire riding and are immune to lightning, Vampires can turn into bats, and Changelings can Shape shift, LSD sting, and DNA sting.
The problems occur when you look at the rest of the kit..
Arcfiends have very little reason to actually fight the crew, they don't drain enough energy to put a dent in a proper engineering team, and have no reason to purposely break APCs, as that just makes their life harder as well. With the push to increase violence between sec and antags, they have no reason to ever be loud enough to be spotted. You can get all the energy you need from maintenance APCs and never need to actually fight.
Vampires and Changelings, on the other hand, can no longer just eat random NPCs. Which is a good change, honestly, but leads to the exact opposite issue for them. Vampires and changelings are highly encouraged to be hyper aggressive. If you get into a fight with security and have no blood or DNA? your probably going to lose, and with the current state of security you will probably be executed. So what is an antag to do but murder early on to get the supplies they need to survive a security fight. But that means you have two options as a vampire or one as a changeling. Vampires can take some blood, and leave the crew member alive so they can continue RPing and being part of the round, maybe steal some blood from medical, but then you risk sec coming and cracking down on you. You could also just kill them, and remove most of their ability to RP. You could thrall them, or as a changeling you could make them a ling spawn. Is that good? is that bad? I'm not sure, but I think it needs work. I've seen enough complaints about both to tell me that much.
On the other hand, Traitor is in an AMAZING spot currently. Tons of options, loads of neat RP tools, many non-lethal options, and loads of lethal ones. If you want to just 1v6 security, you can. if you want to sneak around and be a bit less aggressive, go right ahead, you have the tools and options for it. its the best antag, easily on RP, with Wraith being a pretty distant second (though i have very little experience with the new wraith stuff, which seems incredible for RP and i really cant wait to see more of it).
Anyway thats all i have to say
(Oh also i wish wizard worked on RP so badly, its like my favorite antag and its sadly almost entirely used to rampage and thus seems like itll never be able to get added into the RP antag pool)
TLDR: Valid hunting bad, crew should only be fighting antags if absolutely necessary(IE sec isn't around/haven't arrived). Defending antags from being arrested bad, even if you have an IC relationship. Vamp, ling, and arc are in a bad spot for RP and could really use a bit of a change. Traitor and wraith good for RP.
I personally think that the new push to have antags and sec be more aggressive to each other, while good in theory, has only led to a rise in validhunting. I've seen more non-security crew members hearing about antags over the radio, and sprinting to go fight the antagonist. It makes having actual RP with security even harder as crew members try to escalate both parties or just flat out attack the antag mid talk.
When it comes to IC relationships, You obviously should not be defending an antag from security, at all. If your IC Parent/partner/whatever is being arrested and is clearly an antag, you should not be fighting sec. Want to ask to bring them food while they are in a cell? want to ask to speak to them or visit? sure. Actively shove sec over to let them get away? no, that's essentially self antagging.
If you are in the room and someone you have a IC relationship is being murdered? You can and should try and get them out of their with you while calling security (Unless sec is there already). you shouldn't be trying to kill that antag completely, just get them away from you. But that shouldn't be a IC relationship thing, if your in the bar, and someone walks up and starts murdering a staff assistant in view of everyone? call security and tell them to cut it out, give them a few shoves. You wouldn't and shouldn't just let someone be murdered directly in front of you. Antags should be killing at least somewhat secretly, or expect resistance from the crew around them.
A lot of issues i see around antags also comes down to the lack of actual RP options. Vampires, Lings, and Arcfiends are very limited into their non-combat abilities. Arcfiends have wire riding and are immune to lightning, Vampires can turn into bats, and Changelings can Shape shift, LSD sting, and DNA sting.
The problems occur when you look at the rest of the kit..
Arcfiends have very little reason to actually fight the crew, they don't drain enough energy to put a dent in a proper engineering team, and have no reason to purposely break APCs, as that just makes their life harder as well. With the push to increase violence between sec and antags, they have no reason to ever be loud enough to be spotted. You can get all the energy you need from maintenance APCs and never need to actually fight.
Vampires and Changelings, on the other hand, can no longer just eat random NPCs. Which is a good change, honestly, but leads to the exact opposite issue for them. Vampires and changelings are highly encouraged to be hyper aggressive. If you get into a fight with security and have no blood or DNA? your probably going to lose, and with the current state of security you will probably be executed. So what is an antag to do but murder early on to get the supplies they need to survive a security fight. But that means you have two options as a vampire or one as a changeling. Vampires can take some blood, and leave the crew member alive so they can continue RPing and being part of the round, maybe steal some blood from medical, but then you risk sec coming and cracking down on you. You could also just kill them, and remove most of their ability to RP. You could thrall them, or as a changeling you could make them a ling spawn. Is that good? is that bad? I'm not sure, but I think it needs work. I've seen enough complaints about both to tell me that much.
On the other hand, Traitor is in an AMAZING spot currently. Tons of options, loads of neat RP tools, many non-lethal options, and loads of lethal ones. If you want to just 1v6 security, you can. if you want to sneak around and be a bit less aggressive, go right ahead, you have the tools and options for it. its the best antag, easily on RP, with Wraith being a pretty distant second (though i have very little experience with the new wraith stuff, which seems incredible for RP and i really cant wait to see more of it).
Anyway thats all i have to say
(Oh also i wish wizard worked on RP so badly, its like my favorite antag and its sadly almost entirely used to rampage and thus seems like itll never be able to get added into the RP antag pool)