Goonhub
08-25-2022, 01:53 PM
I was interested a while back in maybe IFDEFing some of the revenant abilities for RP, namely crush and shockwave because they can instantly gib.
Part of the problem too is that a wraith that's consumed what I feel is a relatively small amount of corpses (6 to 8) can essentially have infinite revenant chances after that point and prove incredibly destructive. The wraith interface and skillset is actually pretty intuitive and developed as far as antags go, so most players probably can achieve a fair number of corpses even with the rarity/first time of having a go at it, which opens them up to destructive abilities that IMO, the escalation of wraith ultimately guides your hand to. There's a lot of opportunity to escalate and escalate well as a wraith, I think my biggest problem is it feels like there's no '"middle state". It very much is an inverted bell curve where the wraith is a trivial nuisance absorbing corpses but never manifesting outright, and then after an hour they have the potential to be round-ending. Ideally there'd be something more in that middle section, and barring that, lowering the sort of maximum of the revenant so that someone couldnt realistically be gibbing everyone every 30 seconds but still can manifest as a tangible and serious threat (think the wraith damage boost ability and the stamina drain during a physical altercation). There's still an appreciable level of challenge there for the rarity of the round type, without instantaneous ability to kill people that may not have felt fairly escalated with. Kotlol is right too, the passive RP building parts of the kit costing a non-trivial amount of points for early-stage wraiths means they probably will gloss over those abilities in order to save points for the climax of the round.
6-8 isn't even a terribly hard goal to get, after an hour of pretty focused play, you can get there and spend the next 30 minutes revenanting. I do like the RP of Salt and the ways a chaplain CAN get involved and that it's one of the Only antags that can invite non-sec players into regularly countering it, but the balance of the end-stage in particular seems to be a little off for the RP escalation and way wraith is played.
I havent looked at the rework to see how that would change any of this yet, one thing I do like about wraith though is that you dont have choice over who ends up working with you as a poltergeist which I think limits ability for power and metagaming that some antags like vampire just cant avoid. I hope the minions system preserves that.
Also poltys have a sort of superior set of abilities for RPing versus the Wraith, but forcing the burden of escalation onto poltergeists seems unfair for obvious reasons.
Unrelated but if woofs didnt have a rampage-specific kit and integrated barriers to communication and thus escalation (scoobert doobert speech), they would be fun on RP, I think, for the same reason wraith can be, since it involves bigger swaths of the crew in fighting, particularly civvy jobs (botany, bartender; science)
I'm into a little threat on RP from time to time; definitely when I hear it's wraith though, it's a little irksome that the round ends up as "okay salt the floors and wait 45 minutes for the wraith to manifest and THEN you can actually get to inter/action". Long story short, I wish there was more interface with the antag to fill that 45 minute interval
Part of the problem too is that a wraith that's consumed what I feel is a relatively small amount of corpses (6 to 8) can essentially have infinite revenant chances after that point and prove incredibly destructive. The wraith interface and skillset is actually pretty intuitive and developed as far as antags go, so most players probably can achieve a fair number of corpses even with the rarity/first time of having a go at it, which opens them up to destructive abilities that IMO, the escalation of wraith ultimately guides your hand to. There's a lot of opportunity to escalate and escalate well as a wraith, I think my biggest problem is it feels like there's no '"middle state". It very much is an inverted bell curve where the wraith is a trivial nuisance absorbing corpses but never manifesting outright, and then after an hour they have the potential to be round-ending. Ideally there'd be something more in that middle section, and barring that, lowering the sort of maximum of the revenant so that someone couldnt realistically be gibbing everyone every 30 seconds but still can manifest as a tangible and serious threat (think the wraith damage boost ability and the stamina drain during a physical altercation). There's still an appreciable level of challenge there for the rarity of the round type, without instantaneous ability to kill people that may not have felt fairly escalated with. Kotlol is right too, the passive RP building parts of the kit costing a non-trivial amount of points for early-stage wraiths means they probably will gloss over those abilities in order to save points for the climax of the round.
6-8 isn't even a terribly hard goal to get, after an hour of pretty focused play, you can get there and spend the next 30 minutes revenanting. I do like the RP of Salt and the ways a chaplain CAN get involved and that it's one of the Only antags that can invite non-sec players into regularly countering it, but the balance of the end-stage in particular seems to be a little off for the RP escalation and way wraith is played.
I havent looked at the rework to see how that would change any of this yet, one thing I do like about wraith though is that you dont have choice over who ends up working with you as a poltergeist which I think limits ability for power and metagaming that some antags like vampire just cant avoid. I hope the minions system preserves that.
Also poltys have a sort of superior set of abilities for RPing versus the Wraith, but forcing the burden of escalation onto poltergeists seems unfair for obvious reasons.
Unrelated but if woofs didnt have a rampage-specific kit and integrated barriers to communication and thus escalation (scoobert doobert speech), they would be fun on RP, I think, for the same reason wraith can be, since it involves bigger swaths of the crew in fighting, particularly civvy jobs (botany, bartender; science)
I'm into a little threat on RP from time to time; definitely when I hear it's wraith though, it's a little irksome that the round ends up as "okay salt the floors and wait 45 minutes for the wraith to manifest and THEN you can actually get to inter/action". Long story short, I wish there was more interface with the antag to fill that 45 minute interval