05-31-2022, 04:15 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-31-2022, 04:16 PM by Cheffie. Edited 1 time in total.
Edit Reason: Missed a word
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(05-31-2022, 03:04 AM)tamakona Wrote:(05-30-2022, 12:30 PM)Azrun Wrote: I think committing to a pipburn with the possibility of exponential power is a choice that should appropriately cost against the benefits. Exponential power allows for running all equipment on the station at maximum speed. Constant use of the teleporter. Money Money Money…> Thus after a certain point it is time to seal up the TEG and go do something else because there isn’t really anything to do in there just reap the benefits.
The engineering team has also committed to performing an action that puts that team and possibly the entire station at risk. Hotwiring of the engine can turn the station into an electric nightmare. Powerglove users to cosplay as Darth Sidious. A convenient supply of warmed gas that can be used to unleash plasma fires or explosives. Spreading of heat that if unaddressed will cause most of the flammable and combustible material across the station to be no more.
Quote:“Give a reason to repair pipes once more optimal temperature gains being[sic] achieved.”
The intent of the change was to resolve the fact that after you meet a point in the pipeburn the constant loss of pressure per segment is inconsequential. It is completely mitigated by the heat generated at more optimal mixes and the introduction of additional gas. Thus after a certain point it is time to seal up the TEG and go do something else because there isn’t really anything to do in there just reap the benefits. Putting an upper cap on the maximum pressure loss per segment per tick is antithetical to the purpose of the change, as you are saying that that limit should be able to be overcome. Then why even have pipe leaking in the first place, as a skill check?
This change is also intended to help open the door for adjustments to how power feeds into other things (PTL, Powergloves, …) as those problems become difficult to balance between the typical use case vs an exponential use case. I think the presence of exponential power is fun and goofy but not if it is easily achieved by an individual with minimal effort and some setup.
The utilization of matsci or something like silicate’s interaction with glass would be an interesting way for engineering to be able to adjust pipe’s fatigue pressure. But that is beyond the scope of this PR.
This is incorrect. If we're talking about pipeburns, which I believe is the most popular in recent methods of generating exponential power, I think most will agree that it's not a set-and-forget kind of setup. An engineer needs to constantly monitor and manipulate things such as the oxygen saturation and input pressure of the gas, in order to keep the power growth exponential. In addition, running a pipeburn always needs outside help. Even with holes everywhere, the engineer will be exposed to hot gas, meaning the engineer often has to seek assistance from borgs or medical personnel. Sometimes the local APC powering the engine's circulators lose power and needs to be restarted, and in almost every case a second person is needed for this jumpstart process. Even little things, such as replacing the semiconductor and adding lubrication needs help from miners and scientists. It is certainly not "individual" nor minimal effort. It takes a lot of knowledge, intuition, experience, and teamwork to get a good exponential burn going, even prior to this change. The need to stand still welding pipes in a hostile environment is an added layer of extreme tedium to an already complicated process, and with the nature of how pipes rupture the change does not as much add cost as it does remove benefit entirely, so as a person who very much enjoys the role of engineer and the element of puzzle-ry that comes with the TeG I must say I very much dislike this change.
I do, however, understand the need to change some of the widespread damage that such an engine setup can do, but I am 100% confident that this change is not the proper way to do it. I think it would be much more productive to implement changes that limit the amount of danger the engine setup can pose to everyone else, especially unintentionally, because then I do not see how the intentional methods of weaponizing the engine is any different to a scientist spending half an hour in isolation out of everyone's view crafting highly destructive TTVs or deathchems. One of the easiest changes would be to add more natural insulation surrounding the engine room in every map, such as forcefields naturally spawned in and activated; said forcefield could be deactivated or removed with permission from the captain.
also power gloves are thoroughly wack and needs a scaling nerf
As for typical vs exponential use, I realize there is a large disparity between the two, but I think the main issue is that getting big engine numbers is typically a - as the wiki says - pissing contest, and the enjoyment comes from seeing big numbers, one-upping yourself/others, and winning that pissing contest. There's really no incentive to be satisfied with a middle ground; in fact the one reward I can think of for engineers that go above and beyond right now is that jiggawatt medal for the CE, which even necessitates exponential use to get. If there were more methods to reach more "middle ground" levels of power at an appropriately adjusted cost with incentives for doing so, then maybe the disparity issue will be solved.
(oh and btw from talking to the people i know who do funny hot burns apparently the pipe leak change has made it even more uncontrollably dangerous due to the larger amount of hot gas being more difficult to dissipate lmao)
Yeah I can confirm the funny hot burns on kondaru cook the engineers and the station even worse now.
I would also like to see a nerf to the total pipe leakage since currently it just makes engineering on the different maps divided since you can easily pipeburn on kondaru on with its 10 pipes but it's almost impossible on cog 2 with its almost 50. maps like cog 2 are also very unrealistic to keep the pipes welded even more so when the majority of my engineering games its just me in the engine after its all setup... Especially on low pop when half the time there's no other engineers at all.