Goonhub
02-28-2022, 01:03 PM
" yesterday, alone, there were 3 gang rounds that i noticed, and all three had similar events like this. one had a teleport-graviton-crusher trap; one had a ttv detonate on the shuttle; **one had a teletrap-graviton-brute trap, that is, yours**. none of these were part of gang gameplay; they were gang members using their antag status to be a hardmode traitor."
So the ban I got today is for a round you saw yesterday where I built a grav brute trap? I think that actually happened today in the exact round we are talking about. i thnik you are possibly confusing me for some other person if you think I was involved in a grav trap yesterday. I think I did make one yesterday as a non antag but it was voluntary only with clear labelling and out of the way as I have been told to do previously by admins.
Ive been told by other more active admins (Katzen if memory serves correctly) the stuff about shame cubes not being used. I've seen one like once since I started playing, maybe they get used a lot when Im not online but in my experience they just dont happen. The reasoning I gave was the reason given to me by again i think Katzen. Apologies Katzen for pulling you into this but it would be appreciated if you could confirm if you remember saying that.
Anyway lets just take a step back - ignore all the stuff about gangs and traps and whatnot as thats irrelevent to the way you behaved. If that was what the issue we would be having this discussion in the ban forum - this is the admin feedback forum. This is nothing to do with gangs, traps or anything like that and specifically about how you chose to act. I thought I was pretty clear about that in my post - but apparently that was not understood as other issues with gang rounds I was nothing to do with were bought up as a justification.
**I want someone impartial on the admin team to check out whether this statement: "you mixed up two events." is remotely truthful because I do not believe it at all.**
I very much remember seeing word lame in the text you added. This is further corroborated by the timing of my response - in my text file of that rounds chat the line where you said 'lame' was 1290. The bit where I said these comments:
Keegan Owens says, "i mean sure"
Keegan Owens says, "call my stuff lame"
is around line 1862.
Admittedly it copied a fair bit of whitespace but nowhere near enough to account for nearly 600 lines of action between your comment and my supposed response to it. Suggesting my comments were directly in response to something that happened 600 lines before is not at all reasonable. Its just not true.
Quite frankly my own memory and copy of the rounds text suggests that you are either completely wrong or outright lying. I noticed the very first thing you chose to say in response to this was you were tired and high. I would be extremely disappointed if that was accepted as an excuse for any of this - in particular the part where my own memory and copy of the round directly contradicts what you claim. This is either a very bad mistake or directly gaslighting. I hope the seriousness of that alone is taken on board fully because its a terrible and extremely immoral thing to do in any situation.
" i'm not sure if we're playing the same game; i'm really not. naming and shaming these people is a common occurrence; we have shamecubed people for it, we have turned people into cluwnes with the name "I THINK SLURS ARE FUNNY, BEAT ME FOR PRIZES", i have personally summoned mike tyson and the banshark on people to make a spectacle of the racist getting shown the door. it is how i stand up and say "i could ban this guy quietly, but i want to send a message: this is not welcome here."
No it is not - Ive seen like maybe 2 or 3 events like this in the entire time Ive spent on goon. Maybe it was part of the culture once upon a time but its completely absent when I play. Note that every description you gave in reference toa specific action is in past tense, only the generalization is present. We have... we have... I have... etc etc.
" you pulled the entire server's population into the issue by killing them all. "
Could we kindly stick that hyperbolic language back in the dustbin where it belongs. I did not kill the entire server population, probably not even half, describing it that way is trying to make what I did seem worse to somehow negate anything you did. Also even for events affecting an entire server the admin discussion with the player is kept in PMs etc. Maybe a terse OOC comment to say its dealt with but not sitting their lording over someones trap for like half a round with a kill count etc etc etc only then to ban right after a comment about rudeness. Come on... would you believe that reason? If it was so bad then why didnt you do anything to stop it until the round was over? A simple PM would have done the job.
And nothing you said negates the fact that you directly broke 3 of the 'DISCOURAGED' admin guidelines in a single round against a single player then either directly lied or were too high to remember correctly what happened.
Also if any player said this in a ban appeal how would it go down? "the **supposed** guidelines and rules **that you care so much about** even say that ...." Doesnt sound like the words of a person who takes said rules and guidelines at all seriously to me. Ive seen similar language called out in ban appeals. The rules that YOU care so much about? Sounds like someone is implying that someone other than myself doesnt care about the admin guidelines. Theres not a lot of people in this context that it could apply to.
" i'm going to ask you to stop with the repeated insinuations of this. you aren't going to get in shit. nobody cares. the supposed guidelines and rules that you care so much about even say that making a good faith complaint is basically wholly protected."
You have a reputation and have been named for doing this before. Il shut up about it now and hope what you said in that part atleast is true but it didnt come from nowhere.
I accept what I did was wrong - I directly caused the death of two of my gang members including the leader. Im not excusing or justifying that in any way. I waited out my first and so far only ban. Now can we get the conversation back onto the actual topic this thread is about? Its not gangs or traps, its your words and actions.
So the ban I got today is for a round you saw yesterday where I built a grav brute trap? I think that actually happened today in the exact round we are talking about. i thnik you are possibly confusing me for some other person if you think I was involved in a grav trap yesterday. I think I did make one yesterday as a non antag but it was voluntary only with clear labelling and out of the way as I have been told to do previously by admins.
Ive been told by other more active admins (Katzen if memory serves correctly) the stuff about shame cubes not being used. I've seen one like once since I started playing, maybe they get used a lot when Im not online but in my experience they just dont happen. The reasoning I gave was the reason given to me by again i think Katzen. Apologies Katzen for pulling you into this but it would be appreciated if you could confirm if you remember saying that.
Anyway lets just take a step back - ignore all the stuff about gangs and traps and whatnot as thats irrelevent to the way you behaved. If that was what the issue we would be having this discussion in the ban forum - this is the admin feedback forum. This is nothing to do with gangs, traps or anything like that and specifically about how you chose to act. I thought I was pretty clear about that in my post - but apparently that was not understood as other issues with gang rounds I was nothing to do with were bought up as a justification.
**I want someone impartial on the admin team to check out whether this statement: "you mixed up two events." is remotely truthful because I do not believe it at all.**
I very much remember seeing word lame in the text you added. This is further corroborated by the timing of my response - in my text file of that rounds chat the line where you said 'lame' was 1290. The bit where I said these comments:
Keegan Owens says, "i mean sure"
Keegan Owens says, "call my stuff lame"
is around line 1862.
Admittedly it copied a fair bit of whitespace but nowhere near enough to account for nearly 600 lines of action between your comment and my supposed response to it. Suggesting my comments were directly in response to something that happened 600 lines before is not at all reasonable. Its just not true.
Quite frankly my own memory and copy of the rounds text suggests that you are either completely wrong or outright lying. I noticed the very first thing you chose to say in response to this was you were tired and high. I would be extremely disappointed if that was accepted as an excuse for any of this - in particular the part where my own memory and copy of the round directly contradicts what you claim. This is either a very bad mistake or directly gaslighting. I hope the seriousness of that alone is taken on board fully because its a terrible and extremely immoral thing to do in any situation.
" i'm not sure if we're playing the same game; i'm really not. naming and shaming these people is a common occurrence; we have shamecubed people for it, we have turned people into cluwnes with the name "I THINK SLURS ARE FUNNY, BEAT ME FOR PRIZES", i have personally summoned mike tyson and the banshark on people to make a spectacle of the racist getting shown the door. it is how i stand up and say "i could ban this guy quietly, but i want to send a message: this is not welcome here."
No it is not - Ive seen like maybe 2 or 3 events like this in the entire time Ive spent on goon. Maybe it was part of the culture once upon a time but its completely absent when I play. Note that every description you gave in reference toa specific action is in past tense, only the generalization is present. We have... we have... I have... etc etc.
" you pulled the entire server's population into the issue by killing them all. "
Could we kindly stick that hyperbolic language back in the dustbin where it belongs. I did not kill the entire server population, probably not even half, describing it that way is trying to make what I did seem worse to somehow negate anything you did. Also even for events affecting an entire server the admin discussion with the player is kept in PMs etc. Maybe a terse OOC comment to say its dealt with but not sitting their lording over someones trap for like half a round with a kill count etc etc etc only then to ban right after a comment about rudeness. Come on... would you believe that reason? If it was so bad then why didnt you do anything to stop it until the round was over? A simple PM would have done the job.
And nothing you said negates the fact that you directly broke 3 of the 'DISCOURAGED' admin guidelines in a single round against a single player then either directly lied or were too high to remember correctly what happened.
Also if any player said this in a ban appeal how would it go down? "the **supposed** guidelines and rules **that you care so much about** even say that ...." Doesnt sound like the words of a person who takes said rules and guidelines at all seriously to me. Ive seen similar language called out in ban appeals. The rules that YOU care so much about? Sounds like someone is implying that someone other than myself doesnt care about the admin guidelines. Theres not a lot of people in this context that it could apply to.
" i'm going to ask you to stop with the repeated insinuations of this. you aren't going to get in shit. nobody cares. the supposed guidelines and rules that you care so much about even say that making a good faith complaint is basically wholly protected."
You have a reputation and have been named for doing this before. Il shut up about it now and hope what you said in that part atleast is true but it didnt come from nowhere.
I accept what I did was wrong - I directly caused the death of two of my gang members including the leader. Im not excusing or justifying that in any way. I waited out my first and so far only ban. Now can we get the conversation back onto the actual topic this thread is about? Its not gangs or traps, its your words and actions.