something needs to be done about greytiding

[cyberTripping]

And most of the examples in the thread are of security officers abusing their power and killing people!

Unless I'm being stupid (there's decent odds, I'll be honest) only two of the multiple examples were about sec, and only one was about sec killing people. One of these complaints was made by Mouse who was, to my understanding, playing HoS that round, and kept their department in check by liquidating the offending officer. To me, this sounds like the system working as intended.  The other was made by you, and it has now been asserted that the clone was made using a mindslave module. If Mouse is correct here, that would make the clone completely valid, and the officer completely justified in ensuring the clone did not actually make it back alive, assuming this is on Classic.

I do think Security is an alluring role for griefers, but this is one of the reasons we have a round limit in place, and entrust some players with HoS permissions. If someone does play nice until they get security access, and goes on to abuse it in a round without HoS oversight, that's unfortunate, but there's nothing to do but Ahelp (by pressing F1) and move on. I think this would be true even if security had nothing more to them than batons, and that other alluring roles such as barman, chef, and scientist are only guarded by the single available job for the former two and the system mastery barrier to entry of the latter, neither of which could be applied to security as a bandaid.

I personally think grief will always take the path of least resistance, so it's not really something you can mechanic away short of removing pvp from the game. The influx of greytiding is something that requires a cultural solution rather than a mechanical one: Report grief when you see it to help expedite the removal of griefers from the server, and try to be a positive and compassionate example to new players. Anything else that could be done comes before the players have even reached the game, in my opinion.

I’m gonna say, it the biggest problem is meme streamers introducing new players to SS13 and encouraging them to do antag a-helpable things regardless of role or antag status.
So really until that behavior changes the tide will continue.

I've got my hot takes about streamers and youtubers, but I do think administration could afford to be a bit less lenient with stream and video permissions. I understand that the boost in popularity has been a necessary booster shot for Goon's longevity, but with 3 having to go into Extended mode every other week lately, it feels like the capabilities of the administration and playerbase are being strained...