Goonhub
07-27-2021, 12:14 PM
Pre-complaint:
I would like to start this off by saying this isn't a complaint about a single specific admin, but more addressed to the whole team for the purpose of internal discussions.
I have been listening to most ban appeals chronologically when I am driving, and at this point I am around 2019, and something that always catches me off guard, is the lack of severity/harshness in the bans of some bigots, and the amount of bans related to it get appealed; such as people using offensive and inflammatory language, casual use of slurs, and awful Ckey's.
I see Goonstation as a safe place, where I can trust that people using slurs and racists will be punished, I play entirely on the RP server, where I would feel awful if I learned that someone I put a lot of effort into roleplaying with was a racist. SS13 is a main social output of mine with the pandemic so seeing racists really bums me out and makes me want to play less. When starting to play SS13, I quickly stopped on Goonstation after seeing the pride closet, and feeling like I would be in a safe place to express myself.
This message contains a small list of ban appeals, some positive, some negative (and specifically from 2021), and in no way am I asking for the output of these to be changed retroactively, but instead for future ban appeals to be looked at with more illiberality.
_______________________
Complaint:
This complaint was sparked from one recent ban appeal in general, which I felt was a lot worse than those of the past year.
[/url]This specfic ban appeal, by wilhelvondeutshland
In this appeal, someone is appealing a ban for their previous ckey adolfhitlerofthegreatgermanrc, (Adolf Hitler of the Great German Reich).
This person is a very clear neo-nazi, with a username such as that. Even the reference to Nazi Germany as the "Great German Reich".
Within this ban appeal, there is zero shown regret or even apology for the previous ckey/rule breaking, instead they "want to play on goon, it's been a year, and i thought yea why not try to play on goon, hence the appeal request."
What really shocked me about this ban appeal, when compared with previous appeals, was the essentially copy/paste response of "Thanks for appealing, I've removed your ban! Please stick to one ckey going forward, and let me know if you have any problems getting on. Cheers!"
Within previous appeals related to rule 4 breaks, there has always been an admin requesting confirmation that the behaviors of the offending party will change (an issue I will address later)
This ban appeal allows an unreformed neo-nazi back to play on Goonservers, which I have a large issue with. I would much prefer racists/bigots as a whole to be un-allowed on Goonstation, as RP is a safe space for many people. I understand the ideals of reformation, but people hiding their intolerant beliefs, versus actively acknowledging they are wrong, is not the way to go in my opinion. In this case, Wilhelm Von Deutschland isn't even acknowledging that their neo-nazi views were wrong, and is just allowed back in.
_________________
Another example of someone being extremely racist, and very clearly not changing their ways, is [url=this ban appeal by ass]this appeal by ass
Within this appeal, someone who used extremely harsh language (including the hard-r and other alt-right racist sayings). While this appeal may look like they have reformed and made better choices, after a year and a half of being banned, but sadly, this is not the case. A month before in their previous ban appeal about the same topic, they decided to use extremely offensive language in reference to their actions. Its best to read for yourself. Its easy to see that there has been 0 change in character, yet in the following month, their appeal was lifted with no comments...
It really makes me have my doubts, when people who say "I will get better if I am unbanned", clearly are showing themselves as non-improved in their ban appeal, and are lifted within a single word, no warnings, no last chances.
___________________
These two are very similar, however are more positive, as these two people make an indication they will act better, however they are still worrying as to the content of what they were banned for, and the lack of time of a ban given.
This one includes someone using a slur, and being banned for less than a day, stating it was an "inside joke to a friend" and will not happen again
This one is a /TG/ player claiming their racism was "just to fit in" and that it would not happen again, the time banned is not stated, but by context, it doesnt sound like it has been too long
___________________
An example of a positive ban appeal, that I believe shows genuine improvement, was this one from a player who said the racist phrase "we wuz kangz"
They did research into why saying that phrase is wrong, apologized for making people uncomfortable, and seemed genuinely remorseful. My issue with this ban appeal, is the admin response, which includes the saying "...as a heads up, i only banned you because you werent in game when i wanted to talk about this..."
I have an issue with this, as it implies that someone saying a racist phrase, would have had only a warning, instead of a ban for breaking rule 4.
____________________
A personal experience I have had with this, was from a newer player, who played detective a large amount on RP. This was during the weeks following the death of George Floyd. He said to someone he was detaining, something similar to "stop resisting or I will make George Floyd look like a joke"... the news of him saying it quickly spread around the RP server as it does when someone is a bigot, and we all expected him to be banned for saying something that abhorrent.
But only a day later he was playing on goonstation again, and while I do not remember exactly what he said, I heard from others he said something much worse which led to him getting banned.
I really believe that the whole issue could have been avoided/less people exposed to racism if the initial saying of something as awful like that resulted in a ban.
__________________
Results I wish would happen:
I really believe that a lot more of these racist sayings should go with a much harsher punishment on a ban of the first offense, to show people that racism/bigotry is truly not accepted by Goonstation. I feel as if a lot of people saying highly offensive/racist on goon do not get a severe enough punishment for what they are doing, and this is only the public ones that I am able to see. I believe that a lot more bans related to bigotry should remain as permanents, as bigots provide no benefit to the goon community, and we suffer from 0 population issues that would require us to bring in more people...
While a large side of this is on admin treatment of racists/bigots in game and on the forums, a possible way to address this issue would be splitting rule 4 up, with sexual content being listed separately from racism/homophobia/slurs. As I feel like it would show newer players that goon takes a much harsher stance on bigotry.
_________________
This is an open letter for the purpose of constructive feedback. If others wish to comment on their experience with racism on goon, admins more lenient treatment of bigotry, or positive experiences of admins treatment of racism, please add your thoughts below.
I would like to start this off by saying this isn't a complaint about a single specific admin, but more addressed to the whole team for the purpose of internal discussions.
I have been listening to most ban appeals chronologically when I am driving, and at this point I am around 2019, and something that always catches me off guard, is the lack of severity/harshness in the bans of some bigots, and the amount of bans related to it get appealed; such as people using offensive and inflammatory language, casual use of slurs, and awful Ckey's.
I see Goonstation as a safe place, where I can trust that people using slurs and racists will be punished, I play entirely on the RP server, where I would feel awful if I learned that someone I put a lot of effort into roleplaying with was a racist. SS13 is a main social output of mine with the pandemic so seeing racists really bums me out and makes me want to play less. When starting to play SS13, I quickly stopped on Goonstation after seeing the pride closet, and feeling like I would be in a safe place to express myself.
This message contains a small list of ban appeals, some positive, some negative (and specifically from 2021), and in no way am I asking for the output of these to be changed retroactively, but instead for future ban appeals to be looked at with more illiberality.
_______________________
Complaint:
This complaint was sparked from one recent ban appeal in general, which I felt was a lot worse than those of the past year.
[/url]This specfic ban appeal, by wilhelvondeutshland
In this appeal, someone is appealing a ban for their previous ckey adolfhitlerofthegreatgermanrc, (Adolf Hitler of the Great German Reich).
This person is a very clear neo-nazi, with a username such as that. Even the reference to Nazi Germany as the "Great German Reich".
Within this ban appeal, there is zero shown regret or even apology for the previous ckey/rule breaking, instead they "want to play on goon, it's been a year, and i thought yea why not try to play on goon, hence the appeal request."
What really shocked me about this ban appeal, when compared with previous appeals, was the essentially copy/paste response of "Thanks for appealing, I've removed your ban! Please stick to one ckey going forward, and let me know if you have any problems getting on. Cheers!"
Within previous appeals related to rule 4 breaks, there has always been an admin requesting confirmation that the behaviors of the offending party will change (an issue I will address later)
This ban appeal allows an unreformed neo-nazi back to play on Goonservers, which I have a large issue with. I would much prefer racists/bigots as a whole to be un-allowed on Goonstation, as RP is a safe space for many people. I understand the ideals of reformation, but people hiding their intolerant beliefs, versus actively acknowledging they are wrong, is not the way to go in my opinion. In this case, Wilhelm Von Deutschland isn't even acknowledging that their neo-nazi views were wrong, and is just allowed back in.
_________________
Another example of someone being extremely racist, and very clearly not changing their ways, is [url=this ban appeal by ass]this appeal by ass
Within this appeal, someone who used extremely harsh language (including the hard-r and other alt-right racist sayings). While this appeal may look like they have reformed and made better choices, after a year and a half of being banned, but sadly, this is not the case. A month before in their previous ban appeal about the same topic, they decided to use extremely offensive language in reference to their actions. Its best to read for yourself. Its easy to see that there has been 0 change in character, yet in the following month, their appeal was lifted with no comments...
It really makes me have my doubts, when people who say "I will get better if I am unbanned", clearly are showing themselves as non-improved in their ban appeal, and are lifted within a single word, no warnings, no last chances.
___________________
These two are very similar, however are more positive, as these two people make an indication they will act better, however they are still worrying as to the content of what they were banned for, and the lack of time of a ban given.
This one includes someone using a slur, and being banned for less than a day, stating it was an "inside joke to a friend" and will not happen again
This one is a /TG/ player claiming their racism was "just to fit in" and that it would not happen again, the time banned is not stated, but by context, it doesnt sound like it has been too long
___________________
An example of a positive ban appeal, that I believe shows genuine improvement, was this one from a player who said the racist phrase "we wuz kangz"
They did research into why saying that phrase is wrong, apologized for making people uncomfortable, and seemed genuinely remorseful. My issue with this ban appeal, is the admin response, which includes the saying "...as a heads up, i only banned you because you werent in game when i wanted to talk about this..."
I have an issue with this, as it implies that someone saying a racist phrase, would have had only a warning, instead of a ban for breaking rule 4.
____________________
A personal experience I have had with this, was from a newer player, who played detective a large amount on RP. This was during the weeks following the death of George Floyd. He said to someone he was detaining, something similar to "stop resisting or I will make George Floyd look like a joke"... the news of him saying it quickly spread around the RP server as it does when someone is a bigot, and we all expected him to be banned for saying something that abhorrent.
But only a day later he was playing on goonstation again, and while I do not remember exactly what he said, I heard from others he said something much worse which led to him getting banned.
I really believe that the whole issue could have been avoided/less people exposed to racism if the initial saying of something as awful like that resulted in a ban.
__________________
Results I wish would happen:
I really believe that a lot more of these racist sayings should go with a much harsher punishment on a ban of the first offense, to show people that racism/bigotry is truly not accepted by Goonstation. I feel as if a lot of people saying highly offensive/racist on goon do not get a severe enough punishment for what they are doing, and this is only the public ones that I am able to see. I believe that a lot more bans related to bigotry should remain as permanents, as bigots provide no benefit to the goon community, and we suffer from 0 population issues that would require us to bring in more people...
While a large side of this is on admin treatment of racists/bigots in game and on the forums, a possible way to address this issue would be splitting rule 4 up, with sexual content being listed separately from racism/homophobia/slurs. As I feel like it would show newer players that goon takes a much harsher stance on bigotry.
_________________
This is an open letter for the purpose of constructive feedback. If others wish to comment on their experience with racism on goon, admins more lenient treatment of bigotry, or positive experiences of admins treatment of racism, please add your thoughts below.