Goonhub
06-15-2021, 10:36 AM
wasn't impressed a week/two weeks ago watching you deride a detective for performing an arrest (certainly within purview, they come with a *miranda verb and handcuffs in-office) because "[detectives] can't do that", versus something IC ("let's work together on things", "you're a loose cannon and I don't trust you); also assuming that the player was inherently being Not Good because he used his gun with stun rounds, despite that he did open his attempted arrest of a person...Marked For Arrest...with words, multiple times, to the person he fired on, who neither engaged verbally with the detective nor stopped physically.
perhaps you disagree with me on "allowable actions" for detectives, and we can set that aside. you approached this character, and yelled at him, repeteadly, "Listen!" over and over while telling him to put his gun away, he wasn't allowed to arrest people, saying he fired on someone without even speaking (which he tried to verbally engage and also said as much to you). i don't think once at all in the whole sequence of this you listened to the detective (you actually talked over him when he was explaining what his actions were) or said "hey, can you please tell me what you did and why?". you assumed he was wrong in the scenario, and he never got a chance to explain throughout the entire ordeal.
notably, the detective was also Super Drunk, and said he wanted to get antihol and then continue talking (interrupted by a radstorm). after, the detective was standing in medbay, awaiting medical treatment from the scarce doctors. he was standing around when you and the captain both entered, and you started stripping him of his ID in medbay, putting him under arrest while he asked, no less than twice while in medbay, if you could please let him get some antihol first so he could them come with you and speak more clearly to tell you what happened. at this point, i looc'd to please listen to his requests to get antihol. you and the captain ignored all of this and handcuffed him, then took him to sec.
in sec, he was stripped with the intent for demotion, of his ID, of his gun, of his PDA, of his headset, of hit has, of his jacket, and of his 300 starting credits (?????). he again begged if he could please get some antihol and be listened to. the hop then got involved, took his gear, and made herself the "head of detectives". for some reason, the sec team kept the credits that round even when the detective asked if he could please have them back to buy a new PDA. with nothing left to do and being totally demoted to staff assistant, the detective turned to vigilante justice against the person he thought got him in trouble after all this, the person he tried to arrest initially.
i've had okay experiences with you before. but there were a lot of problems with what i observed here that make me think you need to still work on leadership and teamwork skills before you'd be ready for hos, most critically of all being listening to other players. before the radstorm, before medbay, before all of the demotion stuff, you told the detective very simply "put the gun away, man". and you know what happened? he did. there was a direction to go there with taking just the gun, or then opening up trying to listen to his side of things. instead i saw what seemed to be disproportionate punishment for someone coorperative and open to feedback (disallowal of medical treatment when requested and justifiable; handcuff arrest of a compliant person; partial stripping in public/medbay; demotion for a detective who was willing to follow your guidance, established by the fact he listened to you about putting the gun away and did so).
you need to be aware of the way security empowers and also, in bad circumstances, depowers other players. here, a player became so depowered, they turned to borderline/self-antagging. different and more scaled punishment, maybe just the removal of the gun or w/e would've told a different story. when a player loads into the game and selects a role and they become functionally excluded from that role in a way that, to them, seems unfair and like the entire station, it's understandable why they get upset and don't think/want to do anything else if they had started the round thinking "i'm going to be detective!" and then suddenly they aren't; and then turn to less-productive and antagonistic behavior (this was not a plot point of interest, this was a player genuinely upset).
you also need to be reliable for your team (yes, detectives may be included). you had a detective willing to work as part of a security team, utilizing the updates that one of the officers (beepsky included?) set on a suspect to make a warranted engagement that would seem favorable to sec: someone saw this suspect doing something, set them to arrest, and probably would want that arrest status cleared either by arrest or working out whatever caused it, but this must start with approaching that person, which is what the det player did. in the case you don't see detectives as sec, then you need to be reliable for the station, just in general. CEs will pick you up when you get tranq'd, chefs will make you lunchboxes, and miners will gift you powercells, but you have to be open to including these people's RP in the greater scheme of a round, and these things don't come without offering respect to other players. what this means, and perhaps most importantly, is you need to be willing to listen, not to other characters but to other players. there was an opportunity to listen before the radstorm when the detective tried to explain his story and you shouted "Listen, man!" over him repeteadly. there was an opportunity to listen when he asked for antihol the first and second time in medbay while being arrested and ignored. there was an opportunity to listen the third time he asked, and an opportunity to listen when he asked if he could at least keep his clothes, or his PDA, or when he tried again to explain his side. there was an opportunity to listen when he asked if he could just please get his credits back. all of these were deferred. i can't remember if you specifically said anything but at least two players involved then went in discord after the round and called the detective "poo" and bad; and that the round was a "shitshow" (which seemed to be hinged specifically on the detective's performance).
as a final note; you are trusted as hos to have good judgement. i'd like to see that exercised at the officer-level before recommending for hos. there is a certain point where you can and will need to butt heads with the captain and hop. whether the arrest and demotion was asked for by the captain or the security team, you should know when it is time to ask for witnesses or the ai, or the suspect that was set to arrest, and give the detective a chance to speak to what they did (preferably sober).
-1 for now.
perhaps you disagree with me on "allowable actions" for detectives, and we can set that aside. you approached this character, and yelled at him, repeteadly, "Listen!" over and over while telling him to put his gun away, he wasn't allowed to arrest people, saying he fired on someone without even speaking (which he tried to verbally engage and also said as much to you). i don't think once at all in the whole sequence of this you listened to the detective (you actually talked over him when he was explaining what his actions were) or said "hey, can you please tell me what you did and why?". you assumed he was wrong in the scenario, and he never got a chance to explain throughout the entire ordeal.
notably, the detective was also Super Drunk, and said he wanted to get antihol and then continue talking (interrupted by a radstorm). after, the detective was standing in medbay, awaiting medical treatment from the scarce doctors. he was standing around when you and the captain both entered, and you started stripping him of his ID in medbay, putting him under arrest while he asked, no less than twice while in medbay, if you could please let him get some antihol first so he could them come with you and speak more clearly to tell you what happened. at this point, i looc'd to please listen to his requests to get antihol. you and the captain ignored all of this and handcuffed him, then took him to sec.
in sec, he was stripped with the intent for demotion, of his ID, of his gun, of his PDA, of his headset, of hit has, of his jacket, and of his 300 starting credits (?????). he again begged if he could please get some antihol and be listened to. the hop then got involved, took his gear, and made herself the "head of detectives". for some reason, the sec team kept the credits that round even when the detective asked if he could please have them back to buy a new PDA. with nothing left to do and being totally demoted to staff assistant, the detective turned to vigilante justice against the person he thought got him in trouble after all this, the person he tried to arrest initially.
i've had okay experiences with you before. but there were a lot of problems with what i observed here that make me think you need to still work on leadership and teamwork skills before you'd be ready for hos, most critically of all being listening to other players. before the radstorm, before medbay, before all of the demotion stuff, you told the detective very simply "put the gun away, man". and you know what happened? he did. there was a direction to go there with taking just the gun, or then opening up trying to listen to his side of things. instead i saw what seemed to be disproportionate punishment for someone coorperative and open to feedback (disallowal of medical treatment when requested and justifiable; handcuff arrest of a compliant person; partial stripping in public/medbay; demotion for a detective who was willing to follow your guidance, established by the fact he listened to you about putting the gun away and did so).
you need to be aware of the way security empowers and also, in bad circumstances, depowers other players. here, a player became so depowered, they turned to borderline/self-antagging. different and more scaled punishment, maybe just the removal of the gun or w/e would've told a different story. when a player loads into the game and selects a role and they become functionally excluded from that role in a way that, to them, seems unfair and like the entire station, it's understandable why they get upset and don't think/want to do anything else if they had started the round thinking "i'm going to be detective!" and then suddenly they aren't; and then turn to less-productive and antagonistic behavior (this was not a plot point of interest, this was a player genuinely upset).
you also need to be reliable for your team (yes, detectives may be included). you had a detective willing to work as part of a security team, utilizing the updates that one of the officers (beepsky included?) set on a suspect to make a warranted engagement that would seem favorable to sec: someone saw this suspect doing something, set them to arrest, and probably would want that arrest status cleared either by arrest or working out whatever caused it, but this must start with approaching that person, which is what the det player did. in the case you don't see detectives as sec, then you need to be reliable for the station, just in general. CEs will pick you up when you get tranq'd, chefs will make you lunchboxes, and miners will gift you powercells, but you have to be open to including these people's RP in the greater scheme of a round, and these things don't come without offering respect to other players. what this means, and perhaps most importantly, is you need to be willing to listen, not to other characters but to other players. there was an opportunity to listen before the radstorm when the detective tried to explain his story and you shouted "Listen, man!" over him repeteadly. there was an opportunity to listen when he asked for antihol the first and second time in medbay while being arrested and ignored. there was an opportunity to listen the third time he asked, and an opportunity to listen when he asked if he could at least keep his clothes, or his PDA, or when he tried again to explain his side. there was an opportunity to listen when he asked if he could just please get his credits back. all of these were deferred. i can't remember if you specifically said anything but at least two players involved then went in discord after the round and called the detective "poo" and bad; and that the round was a "shitshow" (which seemed to be hinged specifically on the detective's performance).
as a final note; you are trusted as hos to have good judgement. i'd like to see that exercised at the officer-level before recommending for hos. there is a certain point where you can and will need to butt heads with the captain and hop. whether the arrest and demotion was asked for by the captain or the security team, you should know when it is time to ask for witnesses or the ai, or the suspect that was set to arrest, and give the detective a chance to speak to what they did (preferably sober).
-1 for now.