Goonhub
05-19-2021, 08:24 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2021, 08:33 AM by Mordent. Edited 1 time in total.)
Quote:... will significantly nerf arguably the only viable defensive option borg currently have, and possibly even have some unintended and unwanted side effects.
Removing themselves from the situation is the best defensive option they have, and cyborgs can do this easily with a) light cyborgs being faster than humans, b) being able to bolt doors with a single click, c) all access (so being able to go somewhere many humans cannot follow easily), d) speed upgrade for a quick getaway, e) being able to go out into space, f) teleport upgrade...
The shield upgrade still increases a cyborg's effective durability, and while it absolutely is a significant nerf, many of its previous effects seemed to be unintended or oversights. I would rather balance around the "new" shield than revert and re-introduce the bugs.
Quote:If possible, fix the shield sprite not updating.
That was next on my list. Done.
Quote:Assuming people don't share my opinion that ranged damage immunity is not an issue due to there being plenty of other ways to counter borg, please carefully consider how this should be balanced. The PR mentions ranged mitigation being the same as melee, but in general ranged attacks do more damage and allow you to attack way faster than in melee. Even tasers damage borg, so this would mean security basicly has phasers that also stun, even while shielded, to use against borg.
Intentional. Obviously willing to discuss balance of this. I would prefer to have to improve the shield a bit for some places it's potentially lacking in what is relatively balanced for it to be able to do rather than under-nerf and not really "solve" anything. As a counterpoint to above: consider that humans are subject to the above and if you don't have security's shield then also die/get stunned very quickly.
Quote:Leave the original values for melee, as in my experience the melee side was actually very well balanced already, and would sooner need a buff than a nerf.
Disagree. It's also not a significant change in terms of number of attacks needed, and means that some things can actually be used to harm cyborgs now (circular saws and rolling pins being two notable fairly common melee weapons), though they'll take a good bit to actually do significant damage. I stand by my earlier statement: if you want to survive more hits, don't use light parts. Using a standard head instead of a light one (and keeping otherwise the same) makes light cyborgs still faster than humans and increases your head's durability by 3.5x.
Quote:If people do believe the shields need a nerf when it comes to melee damage mitigation, would it be possible to do this in a way that aligns more with the current borg combat meta? Increasing the charge cost is the first thing that comes to mind in this regard.
The charge cost before was actually (generally) steeper, as it would use charge based on the amount of damage the attack did multiplied by 50 (so a fire extinguisher would drain 500 per whack). Now it's capped at 100 per damage actually blocked (so up to 400). In some cases of lower damage weapons the new drain will be higher, sure, but it should at least be a little easier to manage. 400 charge per hit is nothing to sneeze at (38 hits will drain a 15k cell, ignoring the running cost), and it having a ceiling gives cyborgs a chance to run after they take a few hits still.
Quote:Currently it seems to be the case that if a borg's head gets destroyed, this also destroys the brain. Since it's good practice to target the head, this often means that if a borg does die, they have no way to get back into the round. Seeing how borg are meant to switch allegiances by design, this has always seemed odd to me. Changing this could make it so that dying as a borg is less of an issue you would want to avoid at all cost, thereby making any changes that do make them more vulnerable less drastic.
I would hope that the meta might change to actually use the stronger heads (especially with cyborg treads reducing the effective weight of heavier heads).
- A human has a movement delay of 1.5.
- A cyborg with light arms, light legs, and a light head (50 health) has a movement delay of 1.0.
- A cyborg with light arms, light legs, and a standard head (175 health) has a movement delay of 1.2.
- A cyborg with standard arms, standard legs, and a standard head (175 health) has a movement delay of 2.0.
- A cyborg with light arms, treads, and a light head (50 health) has a movement delay of 0.9
- A cyborg with light arms, treads, and a standard head (175 health) has a movement delay of 1.1
- A cyborg with light arms, treads, and a sturdy head (225 health) now has a movement delay of ~1.17.
- A cyborg with light arms, treads, and a heavy head (350 health) now has a movement delay of ~1.23.
There are more changes to come to make the heavier parts (esp. arms) more desirable. Cyborgs can be zippy, fragile things or slower (but if built properly nowhere near as slow as before) tanky things.
Essentially: I'd like to let the shield upgrade nerf stand as-is for now, and we can look into rebalancing once it's been felt out a bit more and people have worked out how to work around it.