Goonhub
10-13-2020, 12:07 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2020, 12:24 AM by Studenterhue. Edited 2 times in total.
Edit Reason: perhaps
)
I'll start with just some clarification about the circumstances surrounding Vampirate being banned (which I use rather loosely since it uses a different system than Discord's ban feature) from our Discord's cool-zone channel and a little bit of the things UrsulaMajor meant by "uncool statements". If it's gonna be a topic of discussion, I hope everyone can at least get their facts right. To paraphrase Ross of Ross's Game Dungeon, if people are gonna be mad, I want them to be mad for the right reasons.
So, first of all, I'm not the person who disbarred Vampirate from cool-zone, and neither is Urs here. If you want info about it straight from the horse's mouth, don't message me or her about it, for we're only the stablehands. I'd advise against asking the horse either, for they've taken a leave for sake of their personal mental health, and I want to leave out their name because I don't feel like a whole bunch of messages (whether asking about the ban or their life) is going to help them out.
Vampirate was forbidden from cool-zone over a pattern of behavior, a pattern the admin who banned them saw as provoking people and generally driving the conversation to everyone's detriment, sometimes to the point of discourse devolving into personal attacks. The remarks about the "someone on the right" were considered part of the behavior, but the examples that came up time and time again whenever the ban came up were these remarks about Native Americans' territory, which a fair number of people considered quite egregious, including the admin who carried out Vampirate's "ban" (again, it's not quite a ban under the hood) from cool-zone. (Link requires Player role and, naturally, presence in our Discord to see. Or maybe not, Discord can be jank sometimes. Try looking for messages from Vampirate from August 29th or so if you can't see that.)
I'm going to try to explain this from the perspective of the admin who prohibited Vampirate from cool-zone; I'm sorry if this might be a little obtuse or turns out to quite far from the truth to a disrespectful degree. You have this player, and it seems like whenever you talk to them about particular subjects in a certain channel, cool-zone, the conversation almost always seems to go awry, and everyone seems to have a terrible time. This is bad news, because this is precisely what you didn't want. The whole point of cool-zone is so people can talk about heavy stuff that might weigh people down (e.g. LGBT issues, living under quarantine, job loss and job searching) in a welcoming environment, while people who don't want it can opt out of it with by simply muting the channel. And not only is it a reoccuring problem, but you get a sense that maybe these ideas are almost deliberately provocative. Some of them feel dangerous even. Yet it still feels genuine, like it's not trolling.
What do you do? Ban them from Discord? Well, that can't be right, they're generally alright everywhere else, maybe not exemplary, but not exactly something you'd boot people out for. Talk to them about it? You have before, and it didn't really seem to stick. And honestly...you kinda feel tired of doing that. Do nothing? The problem's not gonna go away on its own.
So you decide to try basically the Discord version of a jobban: bar them from just that channel. Surgical extraction: if the issue is just this particular aspect of something that has particular rules, but everything else is acceptable, remove them from that aspect. If someone tends to (i.e. has a pattern of doing it) prescribe overzealous punishments as Sec or relentlessly argue laws as AI, but otherwise acts within the rules, a jobban can be a good option; they can still enjoy their game without ruining others' enjoyment. In the same way, barring someone from a particular channel could a good option if they only cause issues in that channel. And you know, they can always appeal.
I hope I've explained it well enough. To end, I want to clarify I really don't have any particular personal beef with Vampirate. I think Vampirate is okay, but there's things that need workshopping. For that, I'd ultimately say...No, but perhaps try again in maybe a few months.
So, first of all, I'm not the person who disbarred Vampirate from cool-zone, and neither is Urs here. If you want info about it straight from the horse's mouth, don't message me or her about it, for we're only the stablehands. I'd advise against asking the horse either, for they've taken a leave for sake of their personal mental health, and I want to leave out their name because I don't feel like a whole bunch of messages (whether asking about the ban or their life) is going to help them out.
Vampirate was forbidden from cool-zone over a pattern of behavior, a pattern the admin who banned them saw as provoking people and generally driving the conversation to everyone's detriment, sometimes to the point of discourse devolving into personal attacks. The remarks about the "someone on the right" were considered part of the behavior, but the examples that came up time and time again whenever the ban came up were these remarks about Native Americans' territory, which a fair number of people considered quite egregious, including the admin who carried out Vampirate's "ban" (again, it's not quite a ban under the hood) from cool-zone. (Link requires Player role and, naturally, presence in our Discord to see. Or maybe not, Discord can be jank sometimes. Try looking for messages from Vampirate from August 29th or so if you can't see that.)
I'm going to try to explain this from the perspective of the admin who prohibited Vampirate from cool-zone; I'm sorry if this might be a little obtuse or turns out to quite far from the truth to a disrespectful degree. You have this player, and it seems like whenever you talk to them about particular subjects in a certain channel, cool-zone, the conversation almost always seems to go awry, and everyone seems to have a terrible time. This is bad news, because this is precisely what you didn't want. The whole point of cool-zone is so people can talk about heavy stuff that might weigh people down (e.g. LGBT issues, living under quarantine, job loss and job searching) in a welcoming environment, while people who don't want it can opt out of it with by simply muting the channel. And not only is it a reoccuring problem, but you get a sense that maybe these ideas are almost deliberately provocative. Some of them feel dangerous even. Yet it still feels genuine, like it's not trolling.
What do you do? Ban them from Discord? Well, that can't be right, they're generally alright everywhere else, maybe not exemplary, but not exactly something you'd boot people out for. Talk to them about it? You have before, and it didn't really seem to stick. And honestly...you kinda feel tired of doing that. Do nothing? The problem's not gonna go away on its own.
So you decide to try basically the Discord version of a jobban: bar them from just that channel. Surgical extraction: if the issue is just this particular aspect of something that has particular rules, but everything else is acceptable, remove them from that aspect. If someone tends to (i.e. has a pattern of doing it) prescribe overzealous punishments as Sec or relentlessly argue laws as AI, but otherwise acts within the rules, a jobban can be a good option; they can still enjoy their game without ruining others' enjoyment. In the same way, barring someone from a particular channel could a good option if they only cause issues in that channel. And you know, they can always appeal.
I hope I've explained it well enough. To end, I want to clarify I really don't have any particular personal beef with Vampirate. I think Vampirate is okay, but there's things that need workshopping. For that, I'd ultimately say...No, but perhaps try again in maybe a few months.