Goonhub
08-10-2020, 02:45 PM
Bumping this topic. Had a pretty good chat about merits of security timelocks in admin chat the other day. Don't put too much weight on the "admin chat" thing; it wasn't like pathology where we had votes and formal discussions and statements drafts and such. It was more like someone dropping a suggestion for a timelock because they were starting to get tired about having to deal with all the awful security (which is not too different from how it goes in #spaceman-discussion). This isn't really an official decree, more like a personal endorsement based on conversations with others.
Anyways, a lot of people were for it based on these arguments:
Personally, I don't like 10. I still grump at people who have 10-20 rounds played for the same things people with 1-10. 20-30 is more my liking. 50 is when people generally have a pretty good grasp of rules but that's rather too high.
I don't think we ought to factor time spent playing Sec on other servers. Sec on other servers is pretty different, for a variety of reasons, from differences in average length of game rounds (which influences what punishments are considered fair or not fair), differences in punishment options, differences in types of antags and other threats sec encounters, differences in rules surrounding Sec, even differences in Sec's arsenal. Simply put, I don't think the experience is transferable.
One of the other admins also offered the idea of locking Sec behind a medal, which you'd earn by completing VR training. It's certainly novel, but I don't think a VR training session, or even multiple sessions, is a good substitute for playing some rounds and seeing what Sec has to deal with and how they ought to deal with it. I think it'd make more sense as a sort of tutorial for new Sec fresh out of the timelock or maybe even an additional requirement on top of the timelock.
Anyways, a lot of people were for it based on these arguments:
- Sec is not really a good job for learning the game as a newbie - This is my particularly favorite argument. It demands you understand a lot of game mechanics (e.g. intents, types of antag, brig system, weapons, combat, general idea of what's deadly and what isn't), it gets stressful at higher pop, and people often have unrealistic, almost toxic expectations of Security. Compare to say, janitor, chef, or botanist, which are much more relaxed while still offering good opportunities to learn game mechanics, especially item interactions.
- New players often have a tenuous grasp of the rules, both of the general game rules and sec-specific rules, and the consequences of breaking rules are higher - I think this is one of the most common reasons for a timelock, and I think it's a very valid reason.
- Part of it is they're new and don't really know of their options. - For example, I often get situations where the new sec player doesn't know they start with a flash in their pouch or that they can and should redeem their tokens for stun gear, so they often wind up beating people to arrest them.
- Part of it is they don't always understand the grief rules. - A lot of times, I see people kill others just for flismy reasons, like "looking suspicious" or breaking into their department, rather than throwing them out. It's bad enough as say doc or barman but it's worse as Sec, who have a lot of nonlethal options that don't involve taking people out of the round. I've even heard from one admin about a sec player who just murdered an assistant just for being an assistant.
- Part of it is they don't know what is crime and isn't crime and what the appropriate punishments are. - This sort of ties into the above, it also includes stuff like what kinds of antags there are and what they do and what kinds in general are considered criminal activity. I get stuff like "no, that robot wasn't an 'evil android' trying to kill you, it was trying to bring you a bag of weapons it found" and "no, you don't get to jail people just for insulting you".
- Part of it is they're new and don't really know of their options. - For example, I often get situations where the new sec player doesn't know they start with a flash in their pouch or that they can and should redeem their tokens for stun gear, so they often wind up beating people to arrest them.
- Higher population and lack of timelock means there's a lot of new sec to teach, and teaching them is more stressful. - There's more players, so there's more new sec (same goes for other jobs). It's simply easier to teach one person than multiple, and that's not even getting into how skilled the recruit might be. It's already stressful enough, for higher populations means there's more crime to handle, so it's taxing for both teacher and student.
- One of the old arguments against timelocking sec was that there'd be less people who'd want to play Sec, to the point where there might never be Sec at all. It's somewhat invalid now due to the sheer amount of players.
Personally, I don't like 10. I still grump at people who have 10-20 rounds played for the same things people with 1-10. 20-30 is more my liking. 50 is when people generally have a pretty good grasp of rules but that's rather too high.
I don't think we ought to factor time spent playing Sec on other servers. Sec on other servers is pretty different, for a variety of reasons, from differences in average length of game rounds (which influences what punishments are considered fair or not fair), differences in punishment options, differences in types of antags and other threats sec encounters, differences in rules surrounding Sec, even differences in Sec's arsenal. Simply put, I don't think the experience is transferable.
One of the other admins also offered the idea of locking Sec behind a medal, which you'd earn by completing VR training. It's certainly novel, but I don't think a VR training session, or even multiple sessions, is a good substitute for playing some rounds and seeing what Sec has to deal with and how they ought to deal with it. I think it'd make more sense as a sort of tutorial for new Sec fresh out of the timelock or maybe even an additional requirement on top of the timelock.