Goonhub
08-03-2020, 02:22 PM
Okay, so I'll leave a more full feedback here than I did on the git so I can elaborate a bit more:
==Initial Questions/Comments==
1. Description says it added 15 new department creation supply packs, but I'm not sure which all have been added. If its all the complex supply_packs, aren't there like 20ish of those?
2. I like the removal of access on honey and mining. People love bee pets, and mining probably is a great call for just throwing out and letting staff assistants run into the void to do exploring and maybe find something useful to boot. As well as letting traitors get their hands on ore if they want to do some mat sci stuff or try to raise money.
3. The Electrical Supplies Crate - 4 Pack needs to have it's value adjusted. Each box produces 7 copper bars, and 7 synthrubber blocks. If each bar and block is now worth 70, that gives each crate a value of 3,920 credits after being reprocessed, and the crate itself can be bought for 1000 credits. A very healthy profit margin.
==Initial Criticisms==
I like the idea of removing "guaranteed" profits, in theory. But the issue I have with implementing nerfs as they stand in that PR is that neither the game nor the in-game culture is currently really geared up towards much interaction with quartermasters except when things really start exploding. People expect the QM to be loaded so that emergency supplies can be bought, but its a rare day when anyone ever provides the QM with any goods. This basically only leaves trade good flipping.
QM has a tough enough time drawing attention to its existence, even WITH near unlimited funding and access to tons of equipment. Without creating a system that encourages people to feed resources into the quartermaster's area or ask them for things outside of emergencies, my fear is that this is just going to either:
1. Result in Quartermasters descending upon the station like ravenous locusts looking for something, anything to sell. This may not be a bad thing in and of itself, but it's going to have to be paired with an admin attitude that stealing station resources to sell as a non-antag is okay. Where does the line between expected QM play and griefing lie? I assume it would be okay to completely empty out tool and material storage. Probably fine to rip up all the floor tiles. What about breaking down walls? Etc. etc. Unless this is also paired with a large reclaimer overhaul which drastically increases the amount of items that can be recycled, there is only so much that can be stolen/collected to be melted down or sold.
2. The quartermaster/cargo office is now just Botany 2, which I can't say seems like a good improvement. We already have botany. Encouraging QM to just be botany that sells things seems like it's pushing QM as a department towards a less desirable direction. If any particular QM WANTS to start a secondary botany area to do so, that's one thing, but being more or less required to do so by the mechanics and lack of player interaction is sort of a bummer.
3. Just end up with an extraordinarily bored quartermaster who now has no means of generating cash, no cash to buy the new items, and still has no customers because there is no culture of visiting the quartermaster for stuff.
==Possible Suggestions==
Note: I don't know how feasible any of this actually is, this is more just some possible suggestions to attempt to make QM feel more interactive.
1. Remote Sell - Add some sort of feature to allow QMs to put up bounties for requested materials. Player dumps in object and it credits their ID or spits out cash or something along those lines, with the payment taken out of the cargo budget. Could be automated at set values (50-75% of current Market Price?) or could be something that the QMs themselves set? The idea being this encourages people to just sell stuff for cash and its on QM to make sure it's getting exported in reasonable amounts of time. Has the added benefit of the crew potentially even dinging the cargo budget if the QMs are slacking and prices change for the worse.
2. Trade fulfillment - Perhaps setup a system where QMs can request an "order form", that lists a series of items (preferably ones that can be made from the fabricators). If a crate is sent out with the order form included, it results in a payout. Maybe it has to be the full list for a payout, maybe just a partial list for a partial payout? I don't know.
3. Dedicated "Trade Crates" - Crates that can't be opened (filled with nothing of value), that are bought solely for the purpose of holding onto them and selling them when their price fluctuates up. I don't find this one particularly compelling, but it might appeal to those who enjoy playing the market games a bit.
4. Add some sort of notice to Supply Request Computers that if you pay with your own personal credits (via scanning you ID), the order is instantly purchased without needing QM approval. ((Although the crates need to be labeled with who purchased them, which they are not currently)). Combine this with some sort departmental assumption that non-security crates purchased with personal funds aren't to be held hostage, and you hopefully have a bit more of a credit sink and a reason for people to want to sell stuff to QM.
Just my two cents.
==Initial Questions/Comments==
1. Description says it added 15 new department creation supply packs, but I'm not sure which all have been added. If its all the complex supply_packs, aren't there like 20ish of those?
2. I like the removal of access on honey and mining. People love bee pets, and mining probably is a great call for just throwing out and letting staff assistants run into the void to do exploring and maybe find something useful to boot. As well as letting traitors get their hands on ore if they want to do some mat sci stuff or try to raise money.
3. The Electrical Supplies Crate - 4 Pack needs to have it's value adjusted. Each box produces 7 copper bars, and 7 synthrubber blocks. If each bar and block is now worth 70, that gives each crate a value of 3,920 credits after being reprocessed, and the crate itself can be bought for 1000 credits. A very healthy profit margin.
==Initial Criticisms==
I like the idea of removing "guaranteed" profits, in theory. But the issue I have with implementing nerfs as they stand in that PR is that neither the game nor the in-game culture is currently really geared up towards much interaction with quartermasters except when things really start exploding. People expect the QM to be loaded so that emergency supplies can be bought, but its a rare day when anyone ever provides the QM with any goods. This basically only leaves trade good flipping.
QM has a tough enough time drawing attention to its existence, even WITH near unlimited funding and access to tons of equipment. Without creating a system that encourages people to feed resources into the quartermaster's area or ask them for things outside of emergencies, my fear is that this is just going to either:
1. Result in Quartermasters descending upon the station like ravenous locusts looking for something, anything to sell. This may not be a bad thing in and of itself, but it's going to have to be paired with an admin attitude that stealing station resources to sell as a non-antag is okay. Where does the line between expected QM play and griefing lie? I assume it would be okay to completely empty out tool and material storage. Probably fine to rip up all the floor tiles. What about breaking down walls? Etc. etc. Unless this is also paired with a large reclaimer overhaul which drastically increases the amount of items that can be recycled, there is only so much that can be stolen/collected to be melted down or sold.
2. The quartermaster/cargo office is now just Botany 2, which I can't say seems like a good improvement. We already have botany. Encouraging QM to just be botany that sells things seems like it's pushing QM as a department towards a less desirable direction. If any particular QM WANTS to start a secondary botany area to do so, that's one thing, but being more or less required to do so by the mechanics and lack of player interaction is sort of a bummer.
3. Just end up with an extraordinarily bored quartermaster who now has no means of generating cash, no cash to buy the new items, and still has no customers because there is no culture of visiting the quartermaster for stuff.
==Possible Suggestions==
Note: I don't know how feasible any of this actually is, this is more just some possible suggestions to attempt to make QM feel more interactive.
1. Remote Sell - Add some sort of feature to allow QMs to put up bounties for requested materials. Player dumps in object and it credits their ID or spits out cash or something along those lines, with the payment taken out of the cargo budget. Could be automated at set values (50-75% of current Market Price?) or could be something that the QMs themselves set? The idea being this encourages people to just sell stuff for cash and its on QM to make sure it's getting exported in reasonable amounts of time. Has the added benefit of the crew potentially even dinging the cargo budget if the QMs are slacking and prices change for the worse.
2. Trade fulfillment - Perhaps setup a system where QMs can request an "order form", that lists a series of items (preferably ones that can be made from the fabricators). If a crate is sent out with the order form included, it results in a payout. Maybe it has to be the full list for a payout, maybe just a partial list for a partial payout? I don't know.
3. Dedicated "Trade Crates" - Crates that can't be opened (filled with nothing of value), that are bought solely for the purpose of holding onto them and selling them when their price fluctuates up. I don't find this one particularly compelling, but it might appeal to those who enjoy playing the market games a bit.
4. Add some sort of notice to Supply Request Computers that if you pay with your own personal credits (via scanning you ID), the order is instantly purchased without needing QM approval. ((Although the crates need to be labeled with who purchased them, which they are not currently)). Combine this with some sort departmental assumption that non-security crates purchased with personal funds aren't to be held hostage, and you hopefully have a bit more of a credit sink and a reason for people to want to sell stuff to QM.
Just my two cents.