Goonhub
02-26-2020, 08:54 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2020, 08:57 AM by popecrunch.)
I invite you to point to literally anything I have done to promote a LGBTQ+ agenda, whatever that means. I'm not a coder, I have no ability to add anything to the game. The only changes I have made to the community are to forbid slurs and other forms of exclusion. The closest I have come to 'promoting an LGBTQ+ agenda' is responding positively and with inclusion when people share their life experiences, which I do for anyone. Perhaps by 'catered to', you really mean 'disallowing their demonization' in which case sure, that's legit, but complaining about that is probably not making you look as cool as you think it will. Again, since you seem to be confused on this topic: i am not a coder, and have no ability to add anything to the game, and haven't specifically approved of or disapproved of any potential addition to the game in a long, long while - and when I do, it's out of gameplay or mechanics concerns. Like I can't even remember the last time I said yes or no to a proposed addition, I think it was something to do with chemistry. Believe it or not, coders generally don't ask me about a given thing before they add it. Why would they? I'm not in charge of that, and I don't wanna be.
It's also worth noting that you seem to think 'no transphobia' is a new rule. It's not. It was always included in the 'no slurs' bit, under 'other bigoted language'. When I've mentioned transphobic comments, it wasn't in the spirit of 'this is a new rule', but in the spirit of 'you might not have realized this, but transphobia is absolutely bigoted speech'. I would know, I'm literally the person who WROTE the original rule, way back when, when we all voted on it at the wizard, admin, and even player level.
Yes, literally everyone voted on it. I would know, I was there. The wizard vote came first, then the admin vote, then the player vote. I made a great point of not imposing that rule until and unless it represented the will of the community as a whole, and not merely a simple majority. I don't recall the numbers right offhand, but I remember it was well in excess of 80% - so your handwringing about that mean old popecrunch imposing his values on an oppressed playerbase is your own invention. If you don't believe me, check with literally anybody who was around back then, they'll back me up.
I literally do not care if people have an interest or not in politics. I literally do not care if people have an interest in the sexual or gender identities of others. I am not asking anybody to. All that I have ever asked, and all that I ever will ask, is that you (a general 'you', not you specifically) do not, under any circumstances, say or do anything that attacks someone on the basis of who they are. That goes both ways - I have grumped at people for calling heterosexuals 'breeders' as an insult, i have grumped at people for assuming people who align with conservative politics are Nazis without anything to back that claim up, and I will continue to do so.
I have not once seen anyone 'pushing an LGBTQ+ agenda' beyond asking for simple acceptance. I'm not even sure what that would look like - gay recruiting? If I did see that, I would stomp on it (though after a moment of amazement at seeing such an insane display, sure). Most of this post seems like unhinged whataboutism that is complaining about something that doesn't exist, based on arguments of imposed values that are false, and ending with a shriek that boils down to 'what rights will they ask for next'. That's.... not a good look, and I would strongly advise you to take a long hard look in the mirror and do some heavy thinking before returning to this conversation.
Civility is not a zero sum game. One group of people being treated more civilly does not mean a different group of people gets treated less civilly, unless you are seriously claiming a right to dehumanize others or use bigoted language.
And again, I take especial offense to the idea that the rules or their implementation is being 'imposed' on the community from above. I was ESPECIALLY careful to avoid that, to the point where I made sure to allow the playerbase to vote on the new rules before they became active. That was possibly before your time, so I don't necessarily hold it against you that you were unaware of that fact, but before you accuse me or anyone of tyranny, you should really check your assumptions lest you look like a fool.
I wanted to take a moment to specifically, strongly ask you to show up at the town hall, because I would very very much like to discuss this with you and see if we can word it better to arrive at something that threads the needle. If it helps, the intent of the guideline wasn't to hide Actual Concerns About The Community from the community, more to keep interpersonal arguments that simply aren't relevant or rumination on whether or not a given player was a Problem off y'all's radar - the first case to avoid stirring the drama pot, the second case to preserve privacy. This isn't something that just you and me should work out, and I think the townhall meeting is an excellent way for everybody with an interest in that guideline being written Correctly to have input.
It's also worth noting that you seem to think 'no transphobia' is a new rule. It's not. It was always included in the 'no slurs' bit, under 'other bigoted language'. When I've mentioned transphobic comments, it wasn't in the spirit of 'this is a new rule', but in the spirit of 'you might not have realized this, but transphobia is absolutely bigoted speech'. I would know, I'm literally the person who WROTE the original rule, way back when, when we all voted on it at the wizard, admin, and even player level.
Yes, literally everyone voted on it. I would know, I was there. The wizard vote came first, then the admin vote, then the player vote. I made a great point of not imposing that rule until and unless it represented the will of the community as a whole, and not merely a simple majority. I don't recall the numbers right offhand, but I remember it was well in excess of 80% - so your handwringing about that mean old popecrunch imposing his values on an oppressed playerbase is your own invention. If you don't believe me, check with literally anybody who was around back then, they'll back me up.
I literally do not care if people have an interest or not in politics. I literally do not care if people have an interest in the sexual or gender identities of others. I am not asking anybody to. All that I have ever asked, and all that I ever will ask, is that you (a general 'you', not you specifically) do not, under any circumstances, say or do anything that attacks someone on the basis of who they are. That goes both ways - I have grumped at people for calling heterosexuals 'breeders' as an insult, i have grumped at people for assuming people who align with conservative politics are Nazis without anything to back that claim up, and I will continue to do so.
I have not once seen anyone 'pushing an LGBTQ+ agenda' beyond asking for simple acceptance. I'm not even sure what that would look like - gay recruiting? If I did see that, I would stomp on it (though after a moment of amazement at seeing such an insane display, sure). Most of this post seems like unhinged whataboutism that is complaining about something that doesn't exist, based on arguments of imposed values that are false, and ending with a shriek that boils down to 'what rights will they ask for next'. That's.... not a good look, and I would strongly advise you to take a long hard look in the mirror and do some heavy thinking before returning to this conversation.
Civility is not a zero sum game. One group of people being treated more civilly does not mean a different group of people gets treated less civilly, unless you are seriously claiming a right to dehumanize others or use bigoted language.
And again, I take especial offense to the idea that the rules or their implementation is being 'imposed' on the community from above. I was ESPECIALLY careful to avoid that, to the point where I made sure to allow the playerbase to vote on the new rules before they became active. That was possibly before your time, so I don't necessarily hold it against you that you were unaware of that fact, but before you accuse me or anyone of tyranny, you should really check your assumptions lest you look like a fool.
(02-26-2020, 08:50 AM)Camryn Wrote: That is why I cannot in good conscience support in any way, shape, or form this proposed guideline:
I wanted to take a moment to specifically, strongly ask you to show up at the town hall, because I would very very much like to discuss this with you and see if we can word it better to arrive at something that threads the needle. If it helps, the intent of the guideline wasn't to hide Actual Concerns About The Community from the community, more to keep interpersonal arguments that simply aren't relevant or rumination on whether or not a given player was a Problem off y'all's radar - the first case to avoid stirring the drama pot, the second case to preserve privacy. This isn't something that just you and me should work out, and I think the townhall meeting is an excellent way for everybody with an interest in that guideline being written Correctly to have input.