'Staggered' discussion & feedback

[Infinite Monkeys]

The root of the problem is that movement is far too fast now to actually hit someone in melee if they are actively evading you. You get one hit when they aren't expecting it, then they just run around in circles or directly away. This is why stun weapons are so strong - they hold the person still and make it possible to get more than one hit in. In my opinion, melee combat should not be purely based on finding and using a stun weapon to the exclusion of everything else.

In the past, there was so much lag that it was possible to hit people even when they were trying to escape, and if you were skilful enough, you could incapacitate someone with just a toolbox. Now, any combat involving a non-stun weapon used on an unwilling target that isn't slowed will almost invariably end in their escape. The result is that antagonists are forced to either steal a stun weapon or buy a traitor item. Non-antagonists faced with a well-armed opponent are also helpless - their only option is to run away and call for help. It used to be that someone with an oxygen tank had a decent chance against even a wizard or changeling provided they were accurate and good at dodging. In fact, I have a distinct memory of being cluwned then getting my revenge and killing the wizard with an oxygen tank a couple of minutes later. That would be next to impossible now, since the wizard can just dodge endlessly and wait for their spells to recharge. Nobody has fond memories of running away from a bad guy and calling for security, because it's boring. Nobody likes trying to attack someone only for them to vanish off screen in under a second and call down half the station to lynch the attacker, either.

Another way to deal with this would be to reduce movement speed overall, but that would be a very unpopular change.

In my opinion, this just makes it more difficult to escape melee combat when it's already pretty difficult if you're caught off guard, are stunned by a plate/chute/shove/etc., affected by chems, already injured (which has a separate slowdown that currently stacks)... At the very least, the target should be able to trade some stamina and sprint away. Additionally, five seconds is a long time when you're fighting someone else, and the staggered effect is pretty noticeable.

Also, I like being able to run away and yell for help. Even before this change, it's still pretty easy to keep someone down if you get the first hit and plan things out, and this change just gives the attacker even more of an edge. If the purpose of this is to encourage less reliance on stun weapons, then I think we should just make stun weapons less outright powerful.

You may be right about allowing sprinting. However, I totally disagree that keeping someone down without a stun weapon is easy. You get one hit, then they endlessly dodge and run away. Nerfing stun weapons would just make it even harder to kill someone using melee, and guns would be the only viable weapon choice. If guns were nerfed too, then combat wouldn't be practical at all - anyone who didn't feel like fighting could just run away.

The thing about 'both parties being affected' is that the aggressor doesn't want or need to move any significant distance - they just need to keep up their assault. Moving around in a fight is only done once both are on even footing, or by the person trying to run away. It encourages people to escalate every single fistfight into a lethal battle, because now that running away is not an option, your only other alternative.is punching back and hoping RNG is in your favor

Can't really comment because a) I haven't tested it, and b) I suck at combat anyways, but:

I feel stun is OP and is deserving of a nerf or reworking.


This sounds like it gives unarmed victims 2 options: 1) Rush out a help message and die or, 2) Try to fight back and die.

Or you can just dodge for 5 seconds then run.

I have not tested this out either but it sounds like another buff to Stuns which is not needed at all. I think stuns and chems are OP. I really like MBC's combat changes cause it adds more to the combat other then increasing the need for stuns or chems.

More than likely it can be changed to fit together well with everything else. If I can find the time to get some games in I'll give you more substantial feedback. I just wanted to come in and say that things like chems and stuns don't need anymore buffs.

I don't want combat to be anymore of a stun and chemfest then it already is and not being able to call for help or run away from a fight when you earn the chance to is unfun and punishes players who are good enough to get the chance to run or call for help. Reminds me of the time tasers and batons were buffed to the point where if hit by one bolt from a Taser you could not move, speak clearly or defend yourself.

Either way at least it's not the RNG combat of the old days. Yeesh.

It's the opposite of a buff to stuns. It's specifically a buff to non-stun weapons, since stun weapons already have a much more powerful effect than staggering which overrides it (being slowed is irrelevant if you're also stunned).