Goonhub
03-12-2018, 12:59 PM
Oh boy.
When you play the game I have zero problem with you; quite the opposite, in fact, you're a generally decent spaceman to have around. I could probably write a couple of paragraphs here that have positive opinions of you in-game, so just assume I did that. The rest of this post is going to be fairly brutally honest opinions on my part, not necessarily reflective of the admins' opinion as a whole. You asked for this.
The problems mainly come when you voice your opinions on the state of the game/some change that was implemented. I know you've had some positive reactions to some of the changes, but they're massively overshadowed by both your multi-paragraph rants that have little substance about how this is a Terrible Thing, or just snarky one-liners that add nothing to the conversation other than sour the mood, which can completely derail a thread.
Combine this with your passsive-aggressive "I've been saying this forever", "I've been playing for X years", and "it's never going to change" stuff, and interacting with you out of the game is massive chore.
Your constant snark to the admins/coders is grating and kills the passion of others for the game, despite you claiming to be passionate about it yourself. This is probably not felt by a chunk of the playerbase, because it's not their work and effort you're snarking at, but I assure you that, as a collective, our response to seeing that you've posted in something is a sigh and an eyeroll before going to see what we did "wrong" this time.
Random name-dropping of "this particular admin said I was okay" in places where your disposition is challenged really doesn't work for me, either. All it does is mean that I either have to keep at my point despite you hiding behind some other admin as an involuntary shield, or just do what I do most of the time and drop it because it is exhausting. You may take this as validation that the name you dropped had the right opinion (whether you've portrayed it correctly or not), but it's really just a case of "I have a finite amount of minutes on this world and I have other things to do".
Before you ask, I don't care to go find examples of any of the above. I really don't. Don't ask. I don't need to back up my opinion, because I've got actual shit to do rather than spending time on... whatever this is?
My understanding regarding the lack of a ban is simply that, while a massive debbie-downer, you weren't breaking rules, which is what bans are primarily for. Conversely, being a constant negative influence on the community is a justifiable reason for a ban, so I'm absolutely with Wonk on his ultimatum regarding cutting the snark.
On the topic of snark: as admins/coders we are all for constructive criticisms of changes. Seriously. Players don't know what they want most of the time, so we'll always take feedback cautiously; kneejerk reactions to changes are harsher than longer-term feelings once things have settled.
Voice your opinions in a way that doesn't come across as whiny, snarky, shitty, or just generally like some sort of tenured snob and we will absolutely take them into consideration. We may not act on them, even if it's the majority opinion, but learning how to constructively criticise something is something you need to learn how to do, and I'm talking from a general standpoint, not just in the forusm.
Not directed entirely at you, but whenever I read "back in <year>" or similar I completely discount anything else said. This is in part because I wasn't playing back then, so really don't give a flying crap about how it was but about how it is now and how we're going to improve it. Nostalgia for the days of yore is one thing, but guess what? Things change. Just because X applied back then doesn't mean X also applies now.
All of the above is from the viewpoint of a coder who's not really had any of my work directly negatively whined at by you; heck, you liked my monkey suit stuff. Now imagine how someone who you've directly been keyboard-warrioring with feels.
Should you stay? I don't care one way or the other with the following caveat: if you're posting in the forums, before hitting the post button go re-read your post and strip out anything that's a) unrelated to the thread (whether it's been derailed already or not), b) a comment regarding how long you've been playing, c) a comment about how things "used" to be, or d) just negativity without suggestions for improvement or justification (i.e. negative criticism that isn't constructive). If the stuff that's left isn't actually contributing anything, discard the post and try again some other time.
A couple of things that I personally don't enjoy seeing thrown around the echo chamber (there's no rule against them or anything, it's just negativity for the sake of negativity): suggestions that admins don't respond to adminhelps, suggestions that security don't get enough lee-way to deal with near-griefing crew, and suggestions that "this hasn't changed in forever so it's clear the admins/coders/others don't care what I/we think". I'm not looking to debate whether you've personally done these or not, as I am not interested in finding examples, but suffice to say I vehemently disagree with the first two, and the last one is just pointless noise. If your posting amounts to one of the above, sometimes it's better to just say nothing at all.
Honestly, you're fine in-game and (mostly) in IRC/Discord. My recommendation is just play again, maybe lurk on the forums, and once you've adjusted to some of the new dynamics in the game since your hiatus (people actually play security a bit more these days, shock/horror) consider coming in with some posts that aren't huge, sweeping suggestions for changes or the passive-aggressive stuff listed above. Play the game itself rather than spend more time in the forums, and you might find yourself enjoying it more. I know I do.
Hope that all helps clear things up from my point of view.
When you play the game I have zero problem with you; quite the opposite, in fact, you're a generally decent spaceman to have around. I could probably write a couple of paragraphs here that have positive opinions of you in-game, so just assume I did that. The rest of this post is going to be fairly brutally honest opinions on my part, not necessarily reflective of the admins' opinion as a whole. You asked for this.
The problems mainly come when you voice your opinions on the state of the game/some change that was implemented. I know you've had some positive reactions to some of the changes, but they're massively overshadowed by both your multi-paragraph rants that have little substance about how this is a Terrible Thing, or just snarky one-liners that add nothing to the conversation other than sour the mood, which can completely derail a thread.
Combine this with your passsive-aggressive "I've been saying this forever", "I've been playing for X years", and "it's never going to change" stuff, and interacting with you out of the game is massive chore.
Your constant snark to the admins/coders is grating and kills the passion of others for the game, despite you claiming to be passionate about it yourself. This is probably not felt by a chunk of the playerbase, because it's not their work and effort you're snarking at, but I assure you that, as a collective, our response to seeing that you've posted in something is a sigh and an eyeroll before going to see what we did "wrong" this time.
Random name-dropping of "this particular admin said I was okay" in places where your disposition is challenged really doesn't work for me, either. All it does is mean that I either have to keep at my point despite you hiding behind some other admin as an involuntary shield, or just do what I do most of the time and drop it because it is exhausting. You may take this as validation that the name you dropped had the right opinion (whether you've portrayed it correctly or not), but it's really just a case of "I have a finite amount of minutes on this world and I have other things to do".
Before you ask, I don't care to go find examples of any of the above. I really don't. Don't ask. I don't need to back up my opinion, because I've got actual shit to do rather than spending time on... whatever this is?
My understanding regarding the lack of a ban is simply that, while a massive debbie-downer, you weren't breaking rules, which is what bans are primarily for. Conversely, being a constant negative influence on the community is a justifiable reason for a ban, so I'm absolutely with Wonk on his ultimatum regarding cutting the snark.
On the topic of snark: as admins/coders we are all for constructive criticisms of changes. Seriously. Players don't know what they want most of the time, so we'll always take feedback cautiously; kneejerk reactions to changes are harsher than longer-term feelings once things have settled.
Voice your opinions in a way that doesn't come across as whiny, snarky, shitty, or just generally like some sort of tenured snob and we will absolutely take them into consideration. We may not act on them, even if it's the majority opinion, but learning how to constructively criticise something is something you need to learn how to do, and I'm talking from a general standpoint, not just in the forusm.
Not directed entirely at you, but whenever I read "back in <year>" or similar I completely discount anything else said. This is in part because I wasn't playing back then, so really don't give a flying crap about how it was but about how it is now and how we're going to improve it. Nostalgia for the days of yore is one thing, but guess what? Things change. Just because X applied back then doesn't mean X also applies now.
All of the above is from the viewpoint of a coder who's not really had any of my work directly negatively whined at by you; heck, you liked my monkey suit stuff. Now imagine how someone who you've directly been keyboard-warrioring with feels.
Should you stay? I don't care one way or the other with the following caveat: if you're posting in the forums, before hitting the post button go re-read your post and strip out anything that's a) unrelated to the thread (whether it's been derailed already or not), b) a comment regarding how long you've been playing, c) a comment about how things "used" to be, or d) just negativity without suggestions for improvement or justification (i.e. negative criticism that isn't constructive). If the stuff that's left isn't actually contributing anything, discard the post and try again some other time.
A couple of things that I personally don't enjoy seeing thrown around the echo chamber (there's no rule against them or anything, it's just negativity for the sake of negativity): suggestions that admins don't respond to adminhelps, suggestions that security don't get enough lee-way to deal with near-griefing crew, and suggestions that "this hasn't changed in forever so it's clear the admins/coders/others don't care what I/we think". I'm not looking to debate whether you've personally done these or not, as I am not interested in finding examples, but suffice to say I vehemently disagree with the first two, and the last one is just pointless noise. If your posting amounts to one of the above, sometimes it's better to just say nothing at all.
Honestly, you're fine in-game and (mostly) in IRC/Discord. My recommendation is just play again, maybe lurk on the forums, and once you've adjusted to some of the new dynamics in the game since your hiatus (people actually play security a bit more these days, shock/horror) consider coming in with some posts that aren't huge, sweeping suggestions for changes or the passive-aggressive stuff listed above. Play the game itself rather than spend more time in the forums, and you might find yourself enjoying it more. I know I do.
Hope that all helps clear things up from my point of view.