Hey hey this item is really slow to pull! Fix it!

[Noah Buttes]

to like this sunday i guess? theres been plenty of time

only thing is i bet theres tons of players who never touch the forums, but theres still been useful feedback there

So like, Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 11:59:59 pm EDT?

Additionally, I agree that it'd be a good idea to spread awareness to the players who don't frequent the forums so that we can get a polling sample that is representative of the entire playerbase.

But that raises a question. What's the best way to promote a forum post to people who don't even visit the forums?

[Musketman12]

to like this sunday i guess? theres been plenty of time

only thing is i bet theres tons of players who never touch the forums, but theres still been useful feedback there

So like, Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 11:59:59 pm EDT?

Additionally, I agree that it'd be a good idea to spread awareness to the players who don't frequent the forums so that we can get a polling sample that is representative of the entire playerbase.

But that raises a question. What's the best way to promote a forum post to people who don't even visit the forums?

OOC I guess

[Ed Venture]

If we make more players aware we should extend the time limit for another week. Just to make sure that as many people as possible vote.

[Noah Buttes]

Well, the deadline has passed.

As of now, the results of the poll are as follows:

Of these solutions, which ones would you be okay with being implemented. Pick as many as appeal to you. Don't pick any that don't appeal to you.

Revert the entire feature. 19 votes
22%

The Buttes-Wire Patch: https://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid...5#pid94725 17 votes
19%

Keep things as they are, with a few minor tweaks for some problematic things 10 votes
11%

Revert everything except for big stuff, which would still be reduced 8 votes
9%

The Buttes-Wire Patch, but without the Wire: https://forum.ss13.co/showthread.php?tid...8#pid94708 8 votes
9%

Reduce the penalties for just a few problem things, keeping everything else the same 7 votes
8%

Keep things exactly as they are, no changes. 7 votes
8%

Reduce, but not revert, everything, including big stuff. 5 votes
6%

Reduce, but not revert, everything except the big stuff. 4 votes
5%

Revert the penalties for just a few problem things, keeping everything else the same 3 votes
3%

Revert everything except for big stuff, which would remain untouched 0 votes
0%

88 Votes in total
Asked Mar 17, 2017

[Ed Venture]

Now we play the waiting game as we wait for a update.

[Ed Venture]

So are any changes coming at all?

[Noah Buttes]

So are any changes coming at all?

We can only hope so.

[Grayshift]

I don't think any major changes are coming, no. If there are any specific items that could stand to be tinkered, continue to post them in this thread.

Quick Summary
The pull speed changes can largely be summed up into different categories.

Items you can pick up have a very minor pull speed decrease. This is because you can just fucking pick them up if you want to move full speed, and is there because why not? Probably only relevant in cases of pulling things around that you can step on, like banana peels and plasma shards.

Humans/mobs are moderately slow, varying on whether the other person is on their feet or dead weight. This stops drive by kidnappings, stunning and pulling a person away at light speed. The port-a-med was reintroduced to help get people to medbay quicker.

Crates and lockers have a severe slow. They need to be slow enough to make using the station transport options attractive for mass delivery of items. There are a lot of ways to deal with this. You can already spend stamina to sprint while pulling. You can push them. Pods. Cargo transporters. Belt hell. Mail system. Cargo tugs. Forklifts. Mulebots. Order a cyborg to do it. Get hulk or musculature enhancement from genetics. Of special note are the wheeled carts (medical, breach repair, forensic, janitor, etc) which are quicker than the regular crates, to get those supplies where they need to be in quick order.

Other items that you can't pick up are the ones that are primarily still needing tinkering, so keep posting them here. The hovering gear (port-a-med, port-a-nanomed), stuff with wheels (nuclear bomb, rollerbeds, mop bucket), scrubbers and meteor shields (important to be able to get safety equipment to places fast) have all been sped up from the default for reasons of intuitiveness or gameplay considerations.


Items you can pick up and human pulling speeds aren't changing. Other non-crate/locker stuff is what this thread was made to receive feedback on so we can tinker the items we forgot or missed. Standard crates and lockers need to be at least as slow as pulling humans to keep them from permitting drive-by kidnappings again.

[Ed Venture]

To the speed of bodies. All your points regarding them have been discussed and been shown to not be enough and has done little to help with the role of Security, which has been made extremely and needlessly harder since this change dropped.

Even with the poll showing more want it removed and the clear support of patches made by Noah it's really starting to feel like our voices and feedback are falling on deaf ears.

I was hoping for real change not repeating things already said.

---

Also I've seen very little of belt hell being used since this change happen so again the only positive thing this change did was make instant kidnappings a thing of the past. But made everything else needlessly harder for no real reason.

If anything I hope you see that the backlash this idea has gotten is not because we hate change but is because you are trying to impose a certain playstyle on us.

[Grayshift]

I don't know where you got the idea this was even targeted at helping the role of security? It's a thing that cuts both ways, except sec has the portabrig to teleport people so they sidestep the issue mostly.

I also stated I don't think polls are appropriate (especially self-selected sampling) for a thing that is likely to be regarded negatively as it is a nerf, even if it is good for the game. Stopping driveby kidnappings is good. Having the various transport systems be relevant is good. Addition of a minor challenge/inconvenience is acceptable.

As for backlash, it's been lower than we guessed. Got out the riot gear and everything...

[Ed Venture]

I don't know where you got the idea this was even targeted at helping the role of security? It's a thing that cuts both ways, except sec has the portabrig to teleport people so they sidestep the issue mostly.

Which we've discussed many times in this thread that it's not enough. Did you even read the thread? Started to get the vibe you have not.

Relevant is a funny word to use as I still see more people pushing crates then using the systems we never asked for.

Nerfing drive-by kidnappings is good but nerfing everyone and trying to get them to play a certain way just to use as you desrcibed in the past "Neat things" is pretty bad. Hell I rather Noah's patch get thrown in then it getting removed or staying as is.

I also stated I don't think polls are appropriate

Then what is? Cause 20 pages of mostly negative feedback hardly got anything changed and neither did a poll made to gather the community's thoughts in the most basic way. If anything you've shown that you're not listening and don't plan to listen. I really hate to put it in such a rude way but I feel I and the community have been more than patient in wanting and waiting for change and even throwing out good suggestions to make it better for everyone. Only to wait about two months to get told "Thanks for the feedback but your collective efforts meant fuck all. Thanks!"

What was the point of asking for our feedback if none of it was going to get used? Feels like a joke really.

[Grayshift]

Pushing crates has been left in purposefully exactly for that reason. If you don't want to use the systems and babysit your cargo all the way to destination, go ahead. It's not full speed and it suffers going around corners or through doors.

But I guess the port-a-sec "not being enough" is just where we disagree, Ed. I love the dang thing and think it's great.

[Ed Venture]

But I guess the port-a-sec "not being enough" is just where we disagree, Ed. I love the dang thing and think it's great.

I love the thing as well and I use it all the god damn time, I feel I've shown that in game and said that more then enough in this very thread. But how about you try playing as a lone Security officer who has to manage 25+ crew members and often has to arrest more then one person at a time, while the crew constantly harasses you and gets in the way?

[Grayshift]

Alright, how did you arrest multiple people at once before the pull change then? Only being able to detain one person, or two if you stick one in the portabrig, has always been a limitation of security, not something this change created.

By the way, the patch idea already exists natively. You can sprint to go faster and spend stamina to speed up pulling. Not a huge boost in speed, but since it spends stamina in a per-tile basis rather than per tick, you can go a decent distance, the same you can sprint while not pulling.

[Ed Venture]

I would throw one in the port-a-brig and pull the other one to security or it's checkpoints myself. But since the change has happen this just leads to more people then I can handle attacking me or getting in the way of the arrest.

Also the slow down speed still effects you after you let go of something. Very minor and only last for about a second but it's still annoying.