Head of Personnel Suggestions

[CameronWoof]

Arresting HoPs is great, but the problem is more that when they do it, you've got a bunch of all-access gremlins raiding security that you have to deal with first.

The Human Resources guy shouldn't be able to access or grant access to security. Being able to arrest him doesn't actually solve the problem, because you still need to wait until he's given a bunch of assistants all-access to punish him for it, at which point he's already DONE the thing you don't want him doing.

I love HoP, but they don't need to be all-access machines. There's no reason that they should be able to give people access to the bridge, security, or department head areas.

[Frank_Stein]

do u guys remember how tasers would sometimes zap ppl if they didnt have loyalty implants? maybe this was a long time ago. but if youre worried that security gear is too easily stolen perhaps this is an additional layer of nuisance that could be re-implemented to discourage it

I miss those. I remember killing a sec officer, dragging them to robotics, cutting out the implant and injecting it into myself, then posing as that officer to infiltrate the bridge during a rev round.

I understand why it was removed, but it made security a lot more intimidating and a lot more rewarding to overcome.

[Vitatroll]

You can give out all access IDs, but giving out all access IDs that make all access IDs that make all access IDs that make etc. is a bit much and is always how it ends up. Especially when everybody seems to immediately rush sec to be the first one to pocket all the tasers.

Though honestly SP, saying the HoP has few perks is just silly. You have your own all access ID with no real responsibilities - on lljk2. Beyond that, your authority is second only to the Captain. The HoP is the 'free-est' person on the station. :quagmire:

There's a reason why veterans looking to powergame for telsci and similar roll HoP instead of Captain or whatever. Even if HoPs got changed, they'd still be the goto 'do whatever you want to do' job among regulars.

[Superlagg]

I'd be okay with sec gear only working with sec people. Makes it just a bit tougher to get an instant win gin, but not by much since you can just loot the egun, revolver, laser gun, phaser, shotgun, and tranq gun and kill people with that. Those take a bit more effort to liberate than to just swipe them from one of the million lockers.

[misto]

what about the stun baton? should it be made disobedient to unimplanted wielders?

the egun also seems like station property and could be subject to similar safety measures

in exchange for security's arsenal being made more sec-only, maybe certain pipeguns could be made real, or the zipgun at least made less self destructive

[Roomba]

I wouldn't go too far down this route. There's quite a lot of rounds, especially on lowpop, where you need to arm up the surviving crewmembers as much as possible (nuke rounds, rampaging wiz, etc.), sec is completely nonexistent and you really don't want to spend time fiddling with loyalty implants and such while the nuke ticks down. Personally I see nothing wrong with sec gear being put to use rather than rotting away in a locker unused - if an officer actually joins late and is unable to find even a scrap of gear in all eight or so of the sec lockers around the station, that's a problem that can be easily solved with a single call to QM.

As for what happens if a traitor/antag gets their hands on them? That's always a possibility, but given the other stuff people get away with on a presumption of innocence (strangelet loaf farming/superheating the engine to the power of a million suns/canbombs for days etc.) sec gear is a pretty minor detail at the end of the day.

[misto]

its cool you mention qm, cause that kind of brings us full circle back to complaining about handing out access because qm crates that contain the good shit are id-locked

[Dr Zoidcrab]

Maybe exclude HoPs from the "make as much of the station accessable to everyone" miscreant objective given how trivial it is to just hand out captain access.

[Ed Venture]

I'll see what can be done with giving them lockers with padlocks.

Sounds neat. I like your idea and hopefully if you do go down this route we can discuss your idea in detail in the future as I am looking forward to updates.

[Sundance]

All of these suggestions are terrible, just leave the role as-is and get rid of the terrible players instead of taking a shit over players who actually play the role and do fun gimmicks

It might be a good thing to add some sort of a logging system to the console that logs all ID changes so it can be reviewed by otherrs

I originally wrote a big effort post with a PDA messaging system that would alert heads, but it got convoluted and I ended up deleting it as it seemed like it would be a pain in the ass to code but also seemed a bit unbalanced (eg: A Traitor got his hands on the ID computer and wanted to upgrade his ID would be alerted to his actions)

A logging system seems like a much better thing as it allows for some detective work without throwing security/whoever everything they need to know, while not being convoluted at all.

Example of an ID log would be:

Firstname Lastname (Scientist) has been approved for access modification by Heado Personelli (Head of Personnel) His new role is Medical Scientist
Access: +Medbay +Medbay Equipment +Pathology +Maintenance -Toxins

Yeah, shove it over the wired/wireless network so packet nerds can fuck with it as well, should be easy. I'll see if i can whip up a patch this weekend

I still think this is the best idea of them all, as it puts an onus not only on the HoP, but whoever uses the ID computer for bad intent, enabling whoever to track without restricting the HoP as a whole. 

[Erik]

All of these suggestions are terrible, just leave the role as-is and get rid of the terrible players instead of taking a shit over players who actually play the role and do fun gimmicks

It might be a good thing to add some sort of a logging system to the console that logs all ID changes so it can be reviewed by otherrs

I originally wrote a big effort post with a PDA messaging system that would alert heads, but it got convoluted and I ended up deleting it as it seemed like it would be a pain in the ass to code but also seemed a bit unbalanced (eg: A Traitor got his hands on the ID computer and wanted to upgrade his ID would be alerted to his actions)

A logging system seems like a much better thing as it allows for some detective work without throwing security/whoever everything they need to know, while not being convoluted at all.

Example of an ID log would be:

Firstname Lastname (Scientist) has been approved for access modification by Heado Personelli (Head of Personnel) His new role is Medical Scientist
Access: +Medbay +Medbay Equipment +Pathology +Maintenance -Toxins

Yeah, shove it over the wired/wireless network so packet nerds can fuck with it as well, should be easy. I'll see if i can whip up a patch this weekend

I still think this is the best idea of them all, as it puts an onus not only on the HoP, but whoever uses the ID computer for bad intent, enabling whoever to track without restricting the HoP as a whole. 

I've got a rough patch in the works. I fully agree that it's a good idea and that terrible hop players should GTFO

[Ed Venture]

My Four favorite ideas in here are the following

1: Make it announce when the HoP give Security access or all access. The Announcement can be only to heads and security or to the whole crew.

2: Put Padlocks on the Security Lockers

3: Take away the HoP's power to give Security access, Head Access and ID PC access unless a head says it's okay.

4: I've seen others suggest this as well but harsher punishment for HoPs that give out All access every single round.

[Zafhset]

Idea 1 and 3 are going to be real horrible for antags who take the effort to stealthily obtain the captain/HoP's ID and try to modify their own.

If Idea 2 works like podlocks, you're going to have bad people effectively lock all of security from getting gear if
A) there is no roundstart security to set the locks
B) the roundstart sec officer doesn't know/forgets to set the locks
C) If it behaves like roundstart podlocks (where officers have the code in their notes), deputized crew members will be unable to get the code on their own.

I am strongly against penalizing the HoP job to accommodate for terrible players who abuse it.

[Ed Venture]

One, Two and Four would be my go to picks if I had the choice. I personally think we are at the Admin intervention stage and not quite towards the "Nerf it" stage and I doubt it will go that far, but if it does I would not be sad if that's what happen to the job. My first choice was to try and get player intervention to stop this but that seems to have done nothing from the looks of things.

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Oh and Option 1 is not really a penalty to the job it's more of a heads up warning to people who can be affected by the HoP's choice of handing someone all access.

[somepotato]

You can give out all access IDs, but giving out all access IDs that make all access IDs that make all access IDs that make etc. is a bit much and is always how it ends up. Especially when everybody seems to immediately rush sec to be the first one to pocket all the tasers.

Though honestly SP, saying the HoP has few perks is just silly. You have your own all access ID with no real responsibilities - on lljk2. Beyond that, your authority is second only to the Captain. The HoP is the 'free-est' person on the station. :quagmire:

There's a reason why veterans looking to powergame for telsci and similar roll HoP instead of Captain or whatever. Even if HoPs got changed, they'd still be the goto 'do whatever you want to do' job among regulars.

last I checked the captain didn't have any real responsibilities either; also in relation to above I do not like 1 and 3 at all

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Idea 1 and 3 are going to be real horrible for antags who take the effort to stealthily obtain the captain/HoP's ID and try to modify their own.

If Idea 2 works like podlocks, you're going to have bad people effectively lock all of security from getting gear if
A) there is no roundstart security to set the locks
B) the roundstart sec officer doesn't know/forgets to set the locks
C) If it behaves like roundstart podlocks (where officers have the code in their notes), deputized crew members will be unable to get the code on their own.

I am strongly against penalizing the HoP job to accommodate for terrible players who abuse it.

Roundstart assignments would definitely be the way it'd be handled and an HoS computer that stores all the combinations.
I want more HoSes!