(12-17-2016, 04:10 AM)babayetu83 Wrote: sounds like a non-issue to me and this all just seems like something posted out of spite
the main challenge of playing a doctor is not this but rather the daunting task of getting your patient to hold the fuck still and stop running away
It's not out of spite, it's out of watching people push past every doctor, grab the medkits or dispense their own chems. Instaepi themselves, and heal up as the doctors stands there like "Welp, this is sure fun". Doctor has the potential to be a super fun role if they are actually needed. I'm telling you now tho the sec officer that drags someone to medbay. Healing the injured themselves. The janitor that drags someone to medbay. Also healing them themselves. (or the medbooth) . The injured sec heals themselves.
I've seen people run around doctors actively refusing to let a doctor heal them (cause everyone could be a traitor) in order to go heal themselves using the easily available med supplies in medbay.
At one time we got rid fo the head surgeon job because it was basically pointless. But with all the people with med access, why would anyone play a medical doctor?
They're glorified cloners.... except the person who brought the body there probably won't let them dot hat.
And I say this as someone who plays MD but refuses to put medical doctor in my rotation. Medical doctor COULD be fun, if they were actually given control of the healing again.
things usually go better if you seek out the injured yourself instead of sitting around in medbay and getting miffed at other people doing your job
i know that there are many people who would appreciate being given a 'house call' rather than haul their half-dead asses to medbay
The funnest games as medstaff is where tons of people are pouring in and you got to stabilize more than one person at a time and you're barely keeping up. There's some fun in wandering, but there's a lot of fun in manning medbay and healing the wounded pouring in. Performing surgeries and so on.
Honestly; roaming medic is how I play it now but only by necessity.
And it really just does get old watching everyone else running and doing your job as a medical doctor.
And even at that, as a roaming medic it still helps to be one of the few with access to those chems, it makes you more valuable, and makes it so people can't just hit the med booth and fix themselves up
All doctors have access to the Port-a-Nanomed controls, right? Why not put it in the Medical Director's office by default so that it can't be hijacked by the Janitor?
That ensures only Medbay can ever actually summon and use it, provided they remember to recall it.
(12-17-2016, 05:25 AM)vampirate Wrote: Well Roboticists and geneticists are medstaff so I wasn't wanting their access removed. Geneticists often end up having to heal their monkey's or people in the cloning room. I'm sorry about secops badluck but they too often just ignore the med doctors and heal people themselves. you know who should be md's in emergency situations? Md's. I'm not really concerned with more people dying to antags. It's why we have the cloner and robotics and maybe it'd lead to more people being borged.
And it kind of goes back to medical doctors being fun and having something to do so people actually want to play them. If sec isn't healing everyone they bring in, then maybe med doctor would be worth playing again? I mean for proof of this you need only look a couple years back when this was the case, and that was back when you could make tricord and heal everyone with no effort as a doctor.
They went and made medicine more involved, then they let half the staff do it. There's no reason to be an doctor and fi you look at the numbers on the people who choose the position, it shows.
I'm cool with more people having to get cloned if it comes to that, and honestly it's more fun for the antag if everyone and their pal can't simply heal up all the damage they do.
And again, there are medkits freaking everywhere on the station, limiting med access also increases the value of knowledge in the game, and encourages people to seek it.
I genuinely think it'll be healthier for the game in the long run. Mechanics might make more cloning machines again, and in general the value of medstaff goes up. I'm not talking about gutting the whole station. A sec with a stack of five hundred creds can stabilize someone outside of med bay.
To be fair I'm also not a huge fan of balancing the game around making antags easier to deal with.
I honestly think making the role of doctor valuable again would make more stay around. When I was around a year ago and people were still getting to know the medical system, it was fun to be a doctor because you were valuable. Now? meh, just be sec, you also get a gun. Also keep in mind I'm not suggesting security not get access to medbay, just dispensers and lockers. There's usually enough laying around to keep people out of crit. Maybe also use cpr again.
So from this post I'm noticing the following:
A) You rank geneticists healing NPC monkey over secoffs who actually helping players.
B) You're comfortable having more people dying as a result of this, because everyone knows dying is fun, right? Also would result in the cloner being targeted.
C) You're basing this off the huge assumption that restricting this to medical doctors will actually make people play more MD's. I know for a fact it won't. All it will end up doing is people dying consequently beside dispensers that they have no access to.
And it's not about balancing the game to make antags easier to deal with. The cards are effectively in the antags favor to begin with, and that's assuming there's sec there to begin with. Doing this won't make secs life any easier, it will make it harder, and you still won't see people playing MD's because of this. So really it's just misery all round.
I think you need a better standing point than "remove everyone from medical or than MDs" because that just seems like putting a band-aid on an open wound, so to speak. What is needed is a more complex.
That's not to say I disagree with you on all of your points. I agree that the janitor and geneticists don't need medical and dispenser access. I agree there's too much medication around the station in general (but that's a wider issue of there being too much stuff in general)
By this same token we could just remove md entirely then and give everyone med access. No more people died back before everyone and their brother had med access. As for geneticists having med access, they're simply part of med staff. I'd be cool with them being folded into research as well but right now they're med staff.
Right now the cloner is always targetted anyway so not really a good reasoning, and this means that roboticist actually get something to do.
And again I'm only advocating limiting dispenser and locker access from people in an area that already has a ton of med kit lying out in the open to begin with. I'm advocating the idea that people can stabalize themselves but a doctor brings them back up to snuff. And yeah more people may die for a while, but it'll be a short curve. There used to be at least three doctors in medbay most the time.
If taking away med access from security is really killing that many people, then people will naturally shift to become doctors because it will actually be engaging. The numbers for the role bear that out during times when they were actually needed.
Good doctors used to be a thing of value, but having every sec officer just do their job had made the role useless, there's no need to be an MD when sec gets more access and a gun. If sec can't figure out a way other than the dispensers to heal someone then they're really not paying attention to the medkits spread out, and the pay to heal stations on every block of the station.
If doctors aren't needed, which in the game's current form they really aren't then either fix that (removing access from others is one way) or remove the bloody class because right now they serve no function when people can walk by them and just heal themselves.
Security having medical access on top of all they already have gives them to broad an array of powers. They aren't healers, that isn't their role. They aren't meant to have that wide of a function.
I spent weeks of nothing but healing people and, honestly, there is rarely a case that epi+abrute/aburn/atox can't fix. Hell, I've tanked blowouts with nothing but epi and a few burn patches.
The only thing worthy of note that people would miss out on are calomel/atropine autoinjectors. In sec's case, I suggest some of those be put in sec regardless. They already have some sflesh patches, ya? Good to go really.
Of the two, I only needed atropine for sarin.. like, twice. I needed calomel for emagged medbots and 'I the whole thing' incidents. One thing I did notice is HUGE wastage of chems. People downing whole tox medkits or dumping the whole large beaker of styptic on themselves. People injecting overdose levels of everything into everybody. I'm not talkin' about new people either; these were vets.
(12-17-2016, 10:52 AM)zewaka Wrote: protip: If someone is being rude and running away you can throw a patch at them. It has a chance to stick.
what is this witchcraft I was never told this
it's a secret shh
not anymore sucka
But on a more serious note, give Medical Doctors the ability to unlock the cloning pod to take people out early. It's not like the geneticists ever clone anyone. A ranged patch-gun that makes the patches always land face-up would be nice too.
Personally, I'd rather doctors had some kind of "specialist knowledge" perk that makes medicine more effective in their hands as an incentive for being healed by them
(12-17-2016, 10:52 AM)zewaka Wrote: protip: If someone is being rude and running away you can throw a patch at them. It has a chance to stick.
I actually found this out by accident, I shouted "GOD DAMNIT STAY STILL YOU CUCK" and threw a Silver patch at them and it stuck. Was gobsmacked that it was actually a thing.
(12-17-2016, 10:52 AM)zewaka Wrote: protip: If someone is being rude and running away you can throw a patch at them. It has a chance to stick.
I actually found this out by accident, I shouted "GOD DAMNIT STAY STILL YOU CUCK" and threw a Silver patch at them and it stuck. Was gobsmacked that it was actually a thing.
12-17-2016, 04:03 PM (This post was last modified: 12-17-2016, 04:04 PM by UmbraDrake.)
(12-17-2016, 03:47 PM)Frank_Stein Wrote: Personally, I'd rather doctors had some kind of "specialist knowledge" perk that makes medicine more effective in their hands as an incentive for being healed by them
Increasing effectiveness of patches and injections would give people a bigger incentive to go to Medical and NOT reshuffle everything...I like this idea.
(12-17-2016, 03:57 PM)Musketman12 Wrote:
(12-17-2016, 03:54 PM)UmbraDrake Wrote:
(12-17-2016, 10:52 AM)zewaka Wrote: protip: If someone is being rude and running away you can throw a patch at them. It has a chance to stick.
I actually found this out by accident, I shouted "GOD DAMNIT STAY STILL YOU CUCK" and threw a Silver patch at them and it stuck. Was gobsmacked that it was actually a thing.
"GOD DAMNIT STAY STILL YOU CUCK"
no
bad
He was bad. He wouldn't stay still. Thought I was tickling him.
Well medicine is already pretty damn effective. I'd say simply scaling it back for nonmedstaff would help. Have a message like "you apply this patch to x, you're not sure if you got that right" maybe even have a chance to do it wrong.
Also have a chance to make things worse. "you apply the styptic patch too close to their eyes, blinding them/yourself". Though it may be better to keep that to the harder chems.
Incentivizing and destinguishing med doctor play is my main point.
And while we're only light rp, it makes sense on an rp level for security and the like to not be good at it.
I think another solution, however, might be to upgrade the sleepers. Make it so the sleepers, when entered, inject a chem that instantly puts your health, chem ticks, and crit status in stasis for thirty seconds and sends a message to the pdas of medstaff that someone is in the sleeper and gives their general health stats and internal reagents. In this way you get med staff time to respond, the people dropping them are effective, sleepers get used again, and doctors get a push. if the sleeper detects no medical doctors it could also temporarily unlock med dispensers, though that may be more difficult to code.
Goonhub
