Reduce the access to med dispensers and lockers to only medstaff

[vampirate]

As the title says, it grows to be a bit ridiculous when the janitor can heal people and basically anyone but civilians and scientists can vend from the med dispensers.     Half the time as a doctor people just push past you to run in and go heal themselves.   

I'm not even saying get rid of the medkits laying about, just make it so medstaff are the ones who open lockers and access machines (this means no security or janitors etc).   

Raise the value of doctors.  Let people actually need to let us do our job.

[Roomba]

'Basically anyone' is a bit much. Off the top of my head, the jobs that start with medbay access and thus can vend from the med vendors: doctors/MD, roboticists, geneticists, sec/det/HOS, janitor, HOP/Cap.

Excluding the HOP/HOS/Cap, who are going to grant themselves access regardless, the only jobs that don't require access to the med dispensers are the janitor and maybe the geneticists. (Sec can probably be cut a little bit of slack, given how self-sufficient they need to be and how little the role is played.)

[vampirate]

Sec has access to a medical pay to heal machine and plenty of medkits in medbay, and I'm not talking about removing the medkits laying about, just removing their machine and locker access. Right now they don't rely on doctors to heal them, or even give them kits, they just shove by and heal themselves. Worse, they'll shove right past you and heal others. I say this as someone who has sec in my rotation, they don't need med dispenser access. Most security knows where the kits are and if they don't they know where medbay is and hopefully there'll be a doctor to help. It increases the value of doctors to not have janitor's and security be able to find a body, bring it to medbay, and just heal that person themselves. Access to the med dispensers and medkits in medbay, imo, is too generous at the moment.

[UmbraDrake]

I can see both sides, but the thing is, I play some Security and we NEED the access to the Medbay vendors, especially if someone slashes us up with c-sabers or smashes your head in with a toolbox.

I'm not sure about Janitors having access though, wasn't aware that they had access to the vendors in the first place. No one else needs it, but Sec needs that fallback in case of serious issues.

[vampirate]

Keep in mind I still think ALL med staff should have access. If it's low pop you're still going to be able to find medkits around. At the moment though, doctors are often superflous in medbay.

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I can see both sides, but the thing is, I play some Security and we NEED the access to the Medbay vendors, especially if someone slashes us up with c-sabers or smashes your head in with a toolbox.

I'm not sure about Janitors having access though, wasn't aware that they had access to the vendors in the first place. No one else needs it, but Sec needs that fallback in case of serious issues.

Sec doesn't need that fallback, they should NEED the doctor. Or hell at least need a doctor to grab them a medkit. Security already starts out with medkits, There are tons of healing options available in the game. Sec doesn't need to shove the doctor out of the way and heal themselves, if they can make it to medbay they can get healed. Bear in mind I'm not advocating that they not be able to enter medbay, merely not open the lockers or dispense.

It also encourages roboticists to make medical drones again and people to actually let the drones do some healing.

I also think this encourages sec to get to know the nooks and cranny's of the station more. Sec's always done just fine letting medbay do the healing or scrounging up their own.

Shit drinking a soda will break down into some hits of epi to keep ya going.

And I'm sorry, if you got slashed up by a csaber you shouldn't be given a ton of options to save yourself including guns, dispenser access, and all manner of things.

[UmbraDrake]

Quite a few people in robotics don't do enough in the drone business. I only know of a few that routinely build medbots (me included). They're actually extremely useful.

In my experience, whenever I run to Medbay with stab wounds or high brute, I HAVE to heal myself, because the doctors are either busy, missing or dead. Not every time like, but it happens more than half the time. I have been in and medical has come to help me, that's all well and good, but by maybe the 30 minute mark I have to do the healing myself.

To be fair, I don't always go to Medbay either, I go to the Med Checkpoint near the pool and stock up on kits. Realistically you would expect Security to have basic medical training. I don't think doing routine surgery is really in Sec's repertoire of skills, however.

[vampirate]

With the pay to use medstation around the station now, as sec if you're keeping a little stack of cash on you those will save you from almost any situation that a dispenser access will. And if doctor's are dead or missing, they'll either have put out medkits or... maybe go looking for missing/dead doctors. It would certainly encourage people to come to medbay when a doctor yells help.

I mean medical can't say "people are always trying to kill me, I NEED that access to security's tasers to give me the edge to stay alive"...

The whole point of different jobs is to have different perks. The whole point of limited access is to learn to survive around it. To be forced to learn things like there is a medkit in the gym right across from the kiosk, hell there's a soda in there that let's you breath in space. There's warm donk pockets right next to the bar in the arcade. These are the types of things people aren't forced to learn anymore because they've been given the keys to the kingdom. It makes the game a lot less interesting when you start expanding access and lowering the distinctions between jobs.

I mean, outside of chef maybe what job doesn't have situations come up where medbay access would save their ass?

[Vitatroll]

After thinking about it,

Agreed.

The Janitor doesn't need to be a better doctor than a doctor. Secoffs only need access to emergency (defib, etc.) equipment with maybe a few choice autoinjectors (calo/atropine) thrown in sec.

IIRC, regular doctors are basically pointless.

[vampirate]

Unless they changed it, if you're going into cardiac failure you can actually wack yourself with your own stun stick for a mini defib

[babayetu83]

sounds like a non-issue to me and this all just seems like something posted out of spite

the main challenge of playing a doctor is not this but rather the daunting task of getting your patient to hold the fuck still and stop running away

[UmbraDrake]

sounds like a non-issue to me and this all just seems like something posted out of spite

the main challenge of playing a doctor is not this but rather the daunting task of getting your patient to hold the fuck still and stop running away

I think this is probably the worst part of medical, especially with cardiac emergencies.

"OI, COME BACK, YOUR HEART STOPPED!"

[vampirate]

sounds like a non-issue to me and this all just seems like something posted out of spite

the main challenge of playing a doctor is not this but rather the daunting task of getting your patient to hold the fuck still and stop running away

It's not out of spite, it's out of watching people push past every doctor, grab the medkits or dispense their own chems. Instaepi themselves, and heal up as the doctors stands there like "Welp, this is sure fun". Doctor has the potential to be a super fun role if they are actually needed. I'm telling you now tho the sec officer that drags someone to medbay. Healing the injured themselves. The janitor that drags someone to medbay. Also healing them themselves. (or the medbooth) . The injured sec heals themselves.

I've seen people run around doctors actively refusing to let a doctor heal them (cause everyone could be a traitor) in order to go heal themselves using the easily available med supplies in medbay.

At one time we got rid fo the head surgeon job because it was basically pointless. But with all the people with med access, why would anyone play a medical doctor?

They're glorified cloners.... except the person who brought the body there probably won't let them dot hat.

And I say this as someone who plays MD but refuses to put medical doctor in my rotation. Medical doctor COULD be fun, if they were actually given control of the healing again.

[Sundance]

Agreed with geneticists and the janitor.
Not agreed on the Secoffs: They are essentially MD's in emergency situations, taking this away from them will swing the balance into antagonists favor to the extreme.
Roboticsts need medical supplies to actually do any sort surgery, so no on that front.

And vampirate, I feel your problem is associated with the lack of things for MD's to do, rather than someone using medical supplies. I'm sticking to my guns in that self surgery should be removed and instead expanded upon, that way doctors can actually be useful in that sense. More ailments and trauma cases and ways to deal with them is what is also needed.

[Mageziya]

From what I understand, the logic in giving janitors medical access is so that they specifically have access to medbay itself for cleaning. The ability for the janitor to practice medicine is a secondary, vaguely unintended feature made by how the access system works. If there was a way to just let them into medbay without granting them access to machines and lockers, it feels like that would be the ideal here.

[vampirate]

Agreed with geneticists and the janitor.
Not agreed on the Secoffs: They are essentially MD's in emergency situations, taking this away from them will swing the balance into antagonists favor to the extreme.
Roboticsts need medical supplies to actually do any sort surgery, so no on that front.

And vampirate, I feel your problem is associated with the lack of things for MD's to do, rather than someone using medical supplies. I'm sticking to my guns in that self surgery should be removed and instead expanded upon, that way doctors can actually be useful in that sense. More ailments and trauma cases and ways to deal with them is what is also needed.

Well Roboticists and geneticists are medstaff so I wasn't wanting their access removed. Geneticists often end up having to heal their monkey's or people in the cloning room. I'm sorry about secops badluck but they too often just ignore the med doctors and heal people themselves. you know who should be md's in emergency situations? Md's. I'm not really concerned with more people dying to antags. It's why we have the cloner and robotics and maybe it'd lead to more people being borged.

And it kind of goes back to medical doctors being fun and having something to do so people actually want to play them. If sec isn't healing everyone they bring in, then maybe med doctor would be worth playing again? I mean for proof of this you need only look a couple years back when this was the case, and that was back when you could make tricord and heal everyone with no effort as a doctor.

They went and made medicine more involved, then they let half the staff do it. There's no reason to be an doctor and fi you look at the numbers on the people who choose the position, it shows.

I'm cool with more people having to get cloned if it comes to that, and honestly it's more fun for the antag if everyone and their pal can't simply heal up all the damage they do.

And again, there are medkits freaking everywhere on the station, limiting med access also increases the value of knowledge in the game, and encourages people to seek it.

I genuinely think it'll be healthier for the game in the long run. Mechanics might make more cloning machines again, and in general the value of medstaff goes up. I'm not talking about gutting the whole station. A sec with a stack of five hundred creds can stabilize someone outside of med bay.

To be fair I'm also not a huge fan of balancing the game around making antags easier to deal with.

I honestly think making the role of doctor valuable again would make more stay around. When I was around a year ago and people were still getting to know the medical system, it was fun to be a doctor because you were valuable. Now? meh, just be sec, you also get a gun. Also keep in mind I'm not suggesting security not get access to medbay, just dispensers and lockers. There's usually enough laying around to keep people out of crit. Maybe also use cpr again.