Allow Ghosts to See AI Laws Through Upload Computer/Verb

[heredth]

I see no real reason why ghosts shouldn't be able to check the AI's laws through the computer let alone through the Show Laws verb.

I guess one argument could be it's to stop ghosting, but you can pretty much find out who traitors are by observing everyone anyways.

[Houka]

You can view almost anything else about a round, I don't see a problem with viewing the AI's laws. It would provide plenty of context to what you're seeing when you're watching synthetics goof around.

[Frank_Stein]

This is now possible after setting DNR

[Zafhset]

This is a bad idea in the same vein of all the other "let ghosts see X" thread. There are many times where subverted AIs/borgs go incognito and rely on PDA communications to do their sabotage or do their subverter's will silently.
If you think the synthetics are breaking their laws adminhelp it.

Limiting it to DNR ghosts shouldnt even be a thing, considering how they could casually let it slip to every other dead person.

[Ed Venture]

I agree with Zafhest. Seeing how some people use knowledge they get when they were dead after they are cloned or brought back it would be a bad idea on LLJK2.

I could see this being okay on the RP server.

[Vitatroll]

I've always wanted it, but I knew it would screw with stealth laws.

In this case it's about gain vs loss. Unless there's some rule about not spewing AI laws in deadchat (which would be heavy-handed at best), I think we stand to lose more than we gain.


Basically, I'm Hitler no. 3. Yay for not having faith in people.

[Sundance]

3 Hitlers! It's a bad day.

But yeah, I really don't see this being an issue. The only con would be someone that's cloned possibly may have information from someone who had set themselves to DNR but then an AI has plenty of ways to deal with clones. Such as gassing them/ejecting them. After all being in the machine they are at the ai's mercy.

The pro for this would mean a whole lot less salt if someone is annihilated either by the AI or by proxy and they want to know if it the ai was just being shit or is genuinely just following their laws.

[Zafhset]

That would require the AI to proactively screw over each and every cloning attempt just for this possibility.
That is going to be really, really annoying for the players involved and the AI having to manage it constantly.

Edit: As for salt, that's already a given in any situation. Players regularly get salty whenever they get killed by another player- you don't see ghosts being granted the ability to instantly identify antags for it. They can observe the AI/borgs in the same way they observe the people who killed them in order to decide if they were killed without rule breaking.

as always, just adminhelp it when in doubt.

[Ultimate Shrek Fan]

You're already allowed to use info you got from deadchat, so why not let ghosts see AI laws. If thats a big concern, make a rule against using knowledge of the AI laws in game after you've been cloned.

[Zafhset]

You're already allowed to use info you got from deadchat, so why not let ghosts see AI laws.  If thats a big concern, make a rule against using knowledge of the AI laws in game after you've been cloned.

Since when were you allowed to act on info obtained from deadchat? That's metaknowledge.

[Lady Birb]

Paraphrasing from the wiki, any information obtained from game mechanics is fair game, deadchat included.

[ZeWaka]

You're already allowed to use info you got from deadchat, so why not let ghosts see AI laws.  If thats a big concern, make a rule against using knowledge of the AI laws in game after you've been cloned.

Since when were you allowed to act on info obtained from deadchat? That's metaknowledge.

Yup, it was pretty much ruled that stuff is fair game. It's not really that enforceable, just don't be super rude and go crazy blabbing the second you get out of the cloner, unless it's that kind of situation.

[Ed Venture]

You're already allowed to use info you got from deadchat, so why not let ghosts see AI laws.  If thats a big concern, make a rule against using knowledge of the AI laws in game after you've been cloned.

Since when were you allowed to act on info obtained from deadchat? That's metaknowledge.

Since forever. I've been playing since late 2009 and it's always been like that. I agree it's metagaming but it is what is it.

[Zafhset]

Well, cripes then.

I can't see how this encourages traitor playstyles that aren't loud and obvious, but I suppose that's how the ball rolls.
Having said that, I think that adding another function that ghosts are allowed to meta on at their discretion feels rather unnecessary.

[somepotato]

Well,  cripes then.

I can't see how this encourages traitor playstyles that aren't loud and obvious, but I suppose that's how the ball rolls.
Having said that, I think that adding another function that ghosts are allowed to meta on at their discretion feels rather unnecessary.

it encourages nothing
it just makes ghosts that are actually observing lives' easier
most ghosts don't stay observing for long anyway in the long run