Ideas for a goonstation research system

[amaranthineApocalypse]

Just giving this topic it's own thread so that we don't keep derailing the other one

[misto]

somebody mentioned collecting data off of random events somehow and that sounded nice. running thru the mini wormholes on purpose, poking the spatial tear, running into the green radiation things on purpose, a radiation suit and a data collector so you can run around gathering points during mass radiation storm, scanning people who are affected by magnet shit

oh yeah, and since artlab and artifacts are typically aching for uses, maybe a machine that eats unwanted shitty artifacts and shits out research points

but what are we going to be using this research system for, exactly? are we going to be building new science guns?

[Frank_Stein]

I'd like to see study of natural phenomena a part of research. Things like the random events (Blowouts, ion storms, asteroid impacts, magnetic polarity, etc) that can be researched either during the event or afterwards.

An example: Study bits of asteroids after an impact to build better shields...or a device that attracts more asteroids towards it

I'd also like to see research that pertains to the more colorful antagonists. Vampires, blobs, wizards, changelings, etc. Either study the subjects themselves or samples of them to create useful things.

Example: Study a changeling to replicate their abilities in the form of a "Skin" suit that gives you regenerative and mimic powers.

---

When it comes to say, researching common items to build upgrades, I'd rather it not be so much about sticking the item in a machine and having it do the work while you wait.

Instead, if it was somehow based on observation during use. Like, say there's a variety of sensors you wear that take readings. So if you want to build a better stun baton, you'd need a volunteer to wear the senors while you stunned them repeatedly.

OR, loan out your sensors to people to wear while they go about their round, having them collect the data for you.

---

but what are we going to be using this research system for, exactly? are we going to be building new science guns?

Partly better guns, but I can think of other things. Maybe new chems that are unlocked after researching? 

For instance, we've got epinephrine and atropine for treating heart conditions, right? So let's say, you get someone wear a sensor suit, and then you induce a heart attack. You treat them once with epinephrine, and then perform the test again with atropine. Now you have useful data about how heart conditions occur and how drugs treat them, so you use the data to create a third, much more potent med that instantly cures heart conditions, maybe even grows a new heart in place if the subject is missing one.

[Noah Buttes]

The idea of intentionally inducing a heart attack in a test subject as part of research in figuring out how to cure heart attacks is hilarious and totally in line with the devil may care attitude of goonstation science.

[Mordent]

I like the overall idea here, particularly the notion of sensors that need to be subjected to certain conditions to gather data.

I think this would best be implemented via a new item in the uniform slot, something like a "sensor-laden jumpsuit", that looks like this. Whenever the wearer of the jumpsuit is subject to some sort of stimulus it gathers a random amount of data (proportional to the strength of the stimulus?) of a certain type. That data can be added to a certain console, sort of like material and the genetics consoles, via use of a tool of some sort (apply to person to get the data, apply to console to give it data), or require them to stand on a certain pad or something.

It goes without saying that you could do all of this to monkeys (humanised or otherwise) as well, and I can't really think of an incentive to get regular crew to be subjected to it. Maybe more a case of "I'm only one scientist, I can only inflict so many things on my test subjects but have plenty of spare suits. Might as well let the other crew get me some data as well."

Here's some random types of data that could be gathered, and some suggestions for how they're gathered (the research could also be bought using the research budget, similar to the genetics consoles):

• Ionic: gathered every second whenever the wearer is radioactive (a random amount between 0 and the amount of Gy in them). Obvious application here is to stick it on someone with the radioactive mutation and reap that sweet, sweet data while ignoring their screams and pleas.
  
• Electrical: gathered whenever someone takes burn damage from an electric source (electrified doors, exposed wires) or is defibrillated. If they have the SMES Human mutation they cannot gain it actively, but passively gain a small amount of data (e.g. 10% chance every ten cycles (basically 1% chance, but less random number generation - could also be just 100% every 100 cycles) to add the equivalent of 1 burn damage from shock's worth of data).
  
• Exothermic: gathered whenever someone takes burn damage from intense heat, proportional to the amount of damage taken. If they have the Heat Resistance or Thermal Resistance mutation they cannot gain it actively, but passively gain a small amount of data.
  
• Endothermic: gathered whenever someone takes burn damage from intense cold, proportional to the amount of damage taken. If they have the Cold Resistance or Thermal Resistance mutation they cannot gain it actively, but passively gain a small amount of data.
  
• Biochemical: gathered every chemistry cycle whenever they lose reagents in their body, proportional to the amount lost and a scaling factor based on the particular reagent (more for dangerous ones, not much for styptic powder etc.). Also gained every time someone gains a stage of an ongoing condition (e.g. food poisoning, shock, chemical dependencies), to make the drunks useful.
  
• Traumatic: gathered every time someone goes into crit. If you can keep bouncing them back and forth between barely out of crit and in crit you can get a lot of data, but good luck finding volunteers for that.
  
• Acidic: gathered whenever the person has acid splashed on them. Fun!
  
• Cybernetic: gathered in a moderate amount whenever someone has a synthetic limb attached (e.g. 100 data per limb), and accumulates slowly per limb over time (e.g. 1 per limb per 100 cycles); gathered in variable amounts when attacked/interacted with by a cyborg/securitron/guardbuddy.
  
• Genetic: literally the same as that the genetics consoles uses, to encourage cooperation. Make the genetic consoles have independent material amounts (i.e. not from the same pool) and only generate it when a subject is in an attached scanner. Filled DNA activators can also be inserted into data cells directly.
  

Research could be a full-on tree, it could require data that was gathered in certain ways (i.e data has subtypes), and it could well require certain amounts of different types of data. The research should probably be aimed at helping other parts of the station more-so than the research department, to give them something proactive to do, and have somewhat of a random element to it. Throw in a new console that allows creation of "data cells", which are basically cells that can contain any combination of data to a certain capacity (e.g. standard cell has 100 capacity, which you could load with all of one type, or maybe 50 electric, 25 endothermic, 25 exothermic).

Applying a data cell to something also inserted in the machine has a chance of giving it somewhat of an upgrade, with the chance dependent on how much data was used and what sort of data it was. Higher amounts of data also come with a risk - applying a cell filled with 100 exothermic data could set something alight, for example, or having a negative effect (e.g. the opposite effect, which could just be junk but could also be useful for antags). In either case, whether the upgrade takes hold (and its strength) should be randomly determined with weighting based on the data available.

If you place an affected item in another new machine it can reverse analyse it to allow a blueprint to be created that can be placed in the appropriate fabricators (e.g. Shielded Cyberheat below can be placed in Robotics Fabricators). Those fabricators could require an amount of data to make more of the item as well, meaning research is an ongoing thing rather than a "do it at the start of the round" thing.

Loaded data cells should be able to be sold by the quartermaster, and randomly loaded data cells should be able to be bought from certain traders/found as random loot.

To keep things interesting, you shouldn't be able to isolate certain types of data - if your test subject got shocked then that cell is tainted with a bit of electric data, which makes the results less certain.

Some random examples of possible effects:

• Shielded Cyberheart (requires Cybernetic, Biochemical, Electric): removes vulnerability to electric shock that a normal Cyberheart has. 
  
• Reagent Dispenser (apply to a beaker, requires Acidic, Biochemical, Exothermic, Endothermic): adds a random reagent available for direct synthesis in the Chemical Dispenser it's applied to, with easy/non-deadly ones having a high chance but also a low chance of some more potent ones (e.g. straight to neurotoxin). The possible reagents are from a set list (to avoid completely imbalanced things, so no antag-only poisons) with each having minimum data requirements (e.g. Oil could require Biochemical and Exothermic in moderate amounts), and it should include some silly stuff as well (another Biochemical/Exothermic reagent could be various meats). Caution is needed here to actually not reduce dependency on other departments, I'd suggest having it simply shortcut creation rather than make new stuff available.
  
• Resistant Jumpsuits (requires one of Acidic, Exothermic, Endothermic, Ionic, Electrical): makes the wearer of the suit more resistant to the relevant effect. Has a chance of making them more vulnerable to a different effect.
  
• Omnitool Arm (apply to synthetic arm): replaces the hand of the limb's owner with an omnitool, equivalent to a cyborg's tool selection (each omnitool is the equivalent of a specific cyborg module, randomised or dependent on what other data is applied). If affixed to a cyborg may allow pseudo-use of two modules at once (i.e. one of their three slots is, in effect, a second module). This "upgrade" may not be always useful, but has use with regards to being still able to break out of somewhere if stripped of your gear, or potentially useful if you have limited carrying capacity (e.g. miners). It does blur the line between cyborg and human more, and takes a bit from the former's uniqueness, so worth thinking about.
  

Artlab research should gather data in small amounts, allowing cooperation between scientists, optionally with artifacts able to be broken down into a one-off data chunk.

In general, I think the process should be fairly consistent (gather data, apply data to item, create blueprint of item, mass produce item) and also resource intensive/time intensive/not guaranteed. This keeps the process sufficiently obscure so as to make multi-round research more interesting, due to its random nature.

Some data types could be much more obscure and only obtainable in certain ways, such as injecting a brain with a syringe full of plasma and then sticking it in the X-ray artlab machine creating "Plasmaneuron" data or something equally weird. Finding the uses for this weird data would be a much longer term project for players.

[69andahalf]

I've been toying with the idea of a form of robotics research that would revolve around going and out killing drones/killer robots. They would drop parts that can then be taken back to the station, scanned, and then if they are useful for anything they would be researched. It would be RNG based, or for high tier robotics then they would drop stuff for better modules or tools.

Based on SpyGuy's Evil Genius play-through, their researchers go around and scan stuff in the base. So it might be cool if scientists have to go around and scan stuff figure out ways to improve it?

[BBEG]

I like the overall idea here, particularly the notion of sensors that need to be subjected to certain conditions to gather data.

I think this would best be implemented via a new item in the uniform slot, something like a "sensor-laden jumpsuit", that looks like this. Whenever the wearer of the jumpsuit is subject to some sort of stimulus it gathers a random amount of data (proportional to the strength of the stimulus?) of a certain type. That data can be added to a certain console, sort of like material and the genetics consoles, via use of a tool of some sort (apply to person to get the data, apply to console to give it data), or require them to stand on a certain pad or something.

It goes without saying that you could do all of this to monkeys (humanised or otherwise) as well, and I can't really think of an incentive to get regular crew to be subjected to it. Maybe more a case of "I'm only one scientist, I can only inflict so many things on my test subjects but have plenty of spare suits. Might as well let the other crew get me some data as well."

Here's some random types of data that could be gathered, and some suggestions for how they're gathered (the research could also be bought using the research budget, similar to the genetics consoles):

• Ionic: gathered every second whenever the wearer is radioactive (a random amount between 0 and the amount of Gy in them). Obvious application here is to stick it on someone with the radioactive mutation and reap that sweet, sweet data while ignoring their screams and pleas.
  
• Electrical: gathered whenever someone takes burn damage from an electric source (electrified doors, exposed wires) or is defibrillated. If they have the SMES Human mutation they cannot gain it actively, but passively gain a small amount of data (e.g. 10% chance every ten cycles (basically 1% chance, but less random number generation - could also be just 100% every 100 cycles) to add the equivalent of 1 burn damage from shock's worth of data).
  
• Exothermic: gathered whenever someone takes burn damage from intense heat, proportional to the amount of damage taken. If they have the Heat Resistance or Thermal Resistance mutation they cannot gain it actively, but passively gain a small amount of data.
  
• Endothermic: gathered whenever someone takes burn damage from intense cold, proportional to the amount of damage taken. If they have the Cold Resistance or Thermal Resistance mutation they cannot gain it actively, but passively gain a small amount of data.
  
• Biochemical: gathered every chemistry cycle whenever they lose reagents in their body, proportional to the amount lost and a scaling factor based on the particular reagent (more for dangerous ones, not much for styptic powder etc.). Also gained every time someone gains a stage of an ongoing condition (e.g. food poisoning, shock, chemical dependencies), to make the drunks useful.
  
• Traumatic: gathered every time someone goes into crit. If you can keep bouncing them back and forth between barely out of crit and in crit you can get a lot of data, but good luck finding volunteers for that.
  
• Acidic: gathered whenever the person has acid splashed on them. Fun!
  
• Cybernetic: gathered in a moderate amount whenever someone has a synthetic limb attached (e.g. 100 data per limb), and accumulates slowly per limb over time (e.g. 1 per limb per 100 cycles); gathered in variable amounts when attacked/interacted with by a cyborg/securitron/guardbuddy.
  
• Genetic: literally the same as that the genetics consoles uses, to encourage cooperation. Make the genetic consoles have independent material amounts (i.e. not from the same pool) and only generate it when a subject is in an attached scanner. Filled DNA activators can also be inserted into data cells directly.
  

Research could be a full-on tree, it could require data that was gathered in certain ways (i.e data has subtypes), and it could well require certain amounts of different types of data. The research should probably be aimed at helping other parts of the station more-so than the research department, to give them something proactive to do, and have somewhat of a random element to it. Throw in a new console that allows creation of "data cells", which are basically cells that can contain any combination of data to a certain capacity (e.g. standard cell has 100 capacity, which you could load with all of one type, or maybe 50 electric, 25 endothermic, 25 exothermic).

Applying a data cell to something also inserted in the machine has a chance of giving it somewhat of an upgrade, with the chance dependent on how much data was used and what sort of data it was. Higher amounts of data also come with a risk - applying a cell filled with 100 exothermic data could set something alight, for example, or having a negative effect (e.g. the opposite effect, which could just be junk but could also be useful for antags). In either case, whether the upgrade takes hold (and its strength) should be randomly determined with weighting based on the data available.

If you place an affected item in another new machine it can reverse analyse it to allow a blueprint to be created that can be placed in the appropriate fabricators (e.g. Shielded Cyberheat below can be placed in Robotics Fabricators). Those fabricators could require an amount of data to make more of the item as well, meaning research is an ongoing thing rather than a "do it at the start of the round" thing.

Loaded data cells should be able to be sold by the quartermaster, and randomly loaded data cells should be able to be bought from certain traders/found as random loot.

To keep things interesting, you shouldn't be able to isolate certain types of data - if your test subject got shocked then that cell is tainted with a bit of electric data, which makes the results less certain.

Some random examples of possible effects:

• Shielded Cyberheart (requires Cybernetic, Biochemical, Electric): removes vulnerability to electric shock that a normal Cyberheart has. 
  
• Reagent Dispenser (apply to a beaker, requires Acidic, Biochemical, Exothermic, Endothermic): adds a random reagent available for direct synthesis in the Chemical Dispenser it's applied to, with easy/non-deadly ones having a high chance but also a low chance of some more potent ones (e.g. straight to neurotoxin). The possible reagents are from a set list (to avoid completely imbalanced things, so no antag-only poisons) with each having minimum data requirements (e.g. Oil could require Biochemical and Exothermic in moderate amounts), and it should include some silly stuff as well (another Biochemical/Exothermic reagent could be various meats). Caution is needed here to actually not reduce dependency on other departments, I'd suggest having it simply shortcut creation rather than make new stuff available.
  
• Resistant Jumpsuits (requires one of Acidic, Exothermic, Endothermic, Ionic, Electrical): makes the wearer of the suit more resistant to the relevant effect. Has a chance of making them more vulnerable to a different effect.
  
• Omnitool Arm (apply to synthetic arm): replaces the hand of the limb's owner with an omnitool, equivalent to a cyborg's tool selection (each omnitool is the equivalent of a specific cyborg module, randomised or dependent on what other data is applied). If affixed to a cyborg may allow pseudo-use of two modules at once (i.e. one of their three slots is, in effect, a second module). This "upgrade" may not be always useful, but has use with regards to being still able to break out of somewhere if stripped of your gear, or potentially useful if you have limited carrying capacity (e.g. miners). It does blur the line between cyborg and human more, and takes a bit from the former's uniqueness, so worth thinking about.
  

Artlab research should gather data in small amounts, allowing cooperation between scientists, optionally with artifacts able to be broken down into a one-off data chunk.

In general, I think the process should be fairly consistent (gather data, apply data to item, create blueprint of item, mass produce item) and also resource intensive/time intensive/not guaranteed. This keeps the process sufficiently obscure so as to make multi-round research more interesting, due to its random nature.

Some data types could be much more obscure and only obtainable in certain ways, such as injecting a brain with a syringe full of plasma and then sticking it in the X-ray artlab machine creating "Plasmaneuron" data or something equally weird. Finding the uses for this weird data would be a much longer term project for players.

i like these ideas however i feel that we should avoid randomness for this the difficulty should be in getting the stuff you need and figuring out how it goes together like for example needing martain corpses for genetic research and crystals for blue space research etc. i feel that would be better then leaving it up to a dice roll.

[Frank_Stein]

Yeah, basic item research should be more or less just be about putting in the time getting the data, with no chance for randomness.

The fancier stuff should require getting ahold of rarer materials or rely on events, antags, and phenomena that are round specific so that there's an element of getting the science team all fired up when they hear a wizard is around at the chance to reverse engineer a staff or something.

I think that resistant jumpsuits idea a perfect example though of how using sensors to collect data can be applied.

[babayetu83]

there should be something that allows the search for a cure for kuru

[misto]

and researching the replication of useful artifact effects

[Nnystyxx]

Mordent is good at writing things en masse and I like them a lot. No randomization but I love that whole idea. Genetics is mostly non-random, science isn't random, telescience is only random math, pathology is. . uh, well, let's not talk about pathology, I think some goals to strive towards that make sense and can be documented/worked out progressively would be nice. Randomization feels kind of hostile to being able to do specific fun things.

EDIT: Also on a more specific note, I like the sensor jumpsuit/data collection through trauma idea because it gives a reason to have TEST SUBJECTS who will give themselves up for science

[Erik]

words

YES.

[Nnystyxx]

Plus like, this gives science fun R&D stuff to do, and gives a means/excuse to implement various buffs, new items and so on. I'd love to see the station reap the fruits of scientific endeavor.

[Vitatroll]

Anything that won't a) have people systematically loot the station the same way every round or b) turn into genetics 2.0 where somebody sits in front of a terminal all round.


Any research system should be simple, non-essential, have elements of randomness (maybe just for top-tier stuff?), and require activity outside of a single room.

[Frank_Stein]

One area of research that should be there: The effects of various drugs and liquors