let security be traitors, too

[babayetu83]

i believe variety is the spice of life and this is what would make me want to take sec off my unwanted list. the chance at doing something other than boring monotonous soulcrushing bullshit

because lets be real, no one beyond a small handful of people here play sec except for the odd pubby and even then they go braindead 5-10 minutes in

[Frank_Stein]

As a frequent Sec player, I wouldn't like this. Being able to trust Sec officers makes the job easier.

Also, from what I understand, antags are chosen before jobs are, so playing as security does not make you get passed over for antag.

[misto]

if the cap and hop and other heads can be traitors, what makes the rentacops so trustworthy

but security is already chronically stretched thin. traitor sec would mean theyd probably regularly rip each other apart and be even less effective

[Zafhset]

Definitely against.

Antag roles are picked before jobs, setting sec or HoS as your favourite doesn't mean you get snubbed from being a bad guy - it'll auto dump you into a traitor capable role if you got lucky enough to roll antag.

[Sundance]

There are tons of reasons why security can't be traitors. Hell they can't even be miscreants, and I'd argue taking that away from the HoS too (did'ya know they can become miscreants? Who knew that even the "most responsible people" that when armed and beret'd can be giant turds given the chance?)

But yeah the basic crux of security is that they're not meant to be the "good guys", they're meant to be the opposing force to antagonism.

Make the opposing part of it more fun, that's what's needed. The camaraderie is also a big chunk of that fun too.

[Noah Buttes]

This idea gets a very firm no from me.

The most important reason why security officers can't be antagonists is trust. The crew needs to trust in security's goodness, if not necessarily its competence. The crew needs to have confidence that, in general, a security officer making an arrest is just doing his job rather than kidnapping his next victim. If they lack that confidence, they're highly likely to interfere with security even more than they already do.

If you want a case study in the effects of a lack of trust on security, look no further than the detective. He can be a traitor, so people are naturally very leery of him. I can't tell you how many times people have interfered with arrests made by the detective just because he's the detective. Granted, the detective really shouldn't be making arrests anyway, but oftentimes he's the only member of security around.

If you want more security based treason, make the lawyer a permanent job.

[Houka]

I can't see a scenario where this is a good idea.

While I do understand that it's strange to have roles exclusively disallowed from something so central to the game's mechanics and atmosphere, it also makes sense within the same reasoning. They are designed to be the ones traitors and changelings and wizards will absolutely have to deal with in one way or another to accomplish their goals, and making it possible for security to be traitors would ruin that dynamic.

Security traitors wouldn't even be more dangerous than any other traitor except in that they could manipulate that trust that is assumed from their occupation. And when this becomes a trend, that trust will evaporate, as people have mentioned before. The secondary consequence to this is that traitors would no longer disguise themselves as security officers and security mindslaves would become less viable. Other problems might arise related to it as well, up to and including just normal security officers having a way harder time just doing their jobs without jerks interfering at every opportunity.

And anyone who has actually played security as an actual functional job knows that the job is already frustrating enough without people calling you 'TRAITOR SEC' over the radio and inciting 90% of the station to vigilante behavior. I've had non-traitors call me a changeling or whatever when I've arrested them in the past, it's a godawful behavior that people do if they think it'll get them free of being arrested in the game.

I don't think this change is worth it overall, it would not improve the game or how it is played, or at least that's how I feel. It would quickly become another excuse for shitty players to be shitty to security officers.

[Wire]

Strongly disagree with this suggestion, for the reasons already given.

[Vitatroll]

People usually derive this conclusion after coming to the belief that playing sec keeps you from being an antag. Since antags get chosen before jobs it doesn't matter what job you choose.

If I see a secoff down for real I'll go help. They're the only ones I can see and say 'Hey, it's the good guys'. Well, unless there's a ling around. Or mindslavers.

[Jebediah Kerman]

No way. You got to at least be able to trust your officers from the start. Security has enough on their plate as is trying to protect the station.

[poland spring]

Yes but only if they still have to do their jobs

Good morning officer blobson I love what you did with your nucleus

[UrsulaMejor]

No. Security can be mindslaved and that already creates way too much crew distrust and paranoia. Letting them be traitors on top of that would make playing them unbearable

[poland spring]

I'm gonna play a ghost cop round of wraith and possess handcuffs to stop crimes

[MollyMillions]

your nucleus

Please let HoS players spawn their nucleus with a beret.

[Noah Buttes]

your nucleus

Please let HoS players spawn their nucleus with a beret.

A legitimately great idea.

I'm completely on board with hats for blobs in general.