Detectives, their gun, and supercopping.

[Dr_Bee]

I dont know if has been a long trend but recently I have been seeing alot of Detectives run around with their .32 shooting lethal shells at criminals instead of doing investigations. Ive seen this both as a traitor, a security officer, and an innocent bystander and it troubles me greatly any time I see it. It seems because detectives have access to a powerful LETHAL weapon at round-start they seem to think they dont have to arrest criminals or traitors, just murder them. what I am suggesting is that only stun rounds are available in the detective office and sec vendors, with a few boxes of lethal rounds being in the armory. that way the detective gets a slightly better tazer to protect himself and the HoS has full control over their entire sec force's use of lethal force.

[babayetu83]

you might as well replace the revolver with a popgun since the stun rounds are horrible

[babayetu83]

also to add on to my last post this sounds like something straight out of TG

[AbbadonOfHell]

I've definitely noticed that Detectives tend to be really bad about just killing people for no damn good reason. It's happened to me once just cause he "thought" he saw me somewhere when I told him the truth he just kinda capped me in the face. (I think I adminhelped it as well)

[Dr_Bee]

you might as well replace the revolver with a popgun since the stun rounds are horrible

what is their stamina damage compared to a standard security issued tazer? remember the revolver does not have to be brought back to a recharging station and can be reloaded in the field, which is a significant advantage over what normal officers have.

[Frank_Stein]

[Grayshift]

AFAIK, stun rounds are literally identical to taser shots, including the damage dropoff on range.

I'm always in favor of cementing the detective as a washed-up hanger-on gimmick, not sec+ with a chance to be traitor too.

I've suggested in the past that the detective be severely ammo-limited. Remove all the ammo from the security vendors - the detective gets the seven rounds in his gun and a single reload. All lethal, because he's a loose cannon like that.

I would also not mind him losing his security access, but one step at a time.

[Ali0en]

Remove his sec access entirely. He's not a member of security like (mostly) everyone plays him to be. He's a non-biased, third party who's supposed to help find out who the bad guy is.

[Owlrich]

Has this come up again? I remember about a year ago, when the detective was still in sec, they were almost like a HoS-lite when some players played them. What with the thermals and usually being loaded up with sec gear, they were definitely above a regular guard and a lot of times would be super serious and overzealous (maybe these were people who wanted to be HoS, or had not been accepted as Hos).

Once the office got moved to disposals and thermals were made useless, detective has been more of a fun gimmick role, like chaplain, but still with some security duties. I remember when I first joined and played detective, I did exactly what you described and got yelled at by the whole crew and forced to turn in my gun, which I did (I was pretty embarrassed!).

If people are doing this now, just be sure to remind them that their gun is not a toy and they can't go around shooting people, and then just give 'em the ol' job ban. We just had a bunch of new forensics updates so it's probably not fair to be asking for more detective stuff at this point in time. Or at least I don't have any innovative ideas.

[Frank_Stein]

The detective is fine as is, though I think the gun should make a different noise when you're firing stun rounds.

Lethal bullets are only for confirmed threats and you should adminhelp a detective that uses them too freely.

[VictorMAngoStein]

Detectives are unfunny nerds and I make sure to annoy them every round.

[BaneOfGiygas]

I try my best to distinguish myself from the sec team by being crabby and always leaving the firefights to them, but I also do like working with them so I can work forensics while they're busy shooting crimers.

I think the idea that the detective is supposed to leave the straight-up firefights to the proper officers sort of clashes with the fact that he's one of the very few members of the station with easy access to lethal weapons. Limiting the near-infinite lethal ammo would definitely cement the weapon as a panic button for when shit suddenly gets really bad and you don't have any officers nearby, which is probably what the detective's revolver SHOULD be.

[DyssalC]

Hiding lethal ammo behind hacking security machines probably would help with this a bit, though preferably leave stun ammo public.

However, for all those that say Detective isn't sec, I have a question.

What is he?

Is he Civilian? That doesn't seem quite right, his purpose is in no way civilian, he investigates crime and occasionally stops a bad guy.

Is he Medical? Well considering he's more likely to shoot you than heal you I think not.

Is he Research? Well, if seeing how much of your blood can be safely replaced with ethanol is a field of research, maybe.

Is he Maintenance? He does spend an awful lot of time in maint, but I don't quite think that cuts it.

Is he a Head? Head of Alcoholism? Head of Shooting People? Head of Setting Off Smoke Alarms?

If we are to believe the wiki, he is classified as a Personnel Job, "These jobs are the administration of the station. They manage the station and ensure everyone is safe and productive."

So it seems that his job is in fact to keep you safe. It also has a heavy relation to crime and criminals, therefore it would make sense he has sec access. For all intents and purposes, it seems he is in fact sec, or at least a part of the same group that sec is, as Security Officer and Head of Security is also a Personnel Job.
For that matter, how does the Detective supercop? Is his job not to investigate crimes and find the criminal? Isn't that what people constantly say the Detective should do? Now, I understand having an issue with the Detective using lethal rounds on reasonably minor offences, but call that what it is, wrongful use of power.

Also, to defend the gun, the Detective job is of course a gumshoe, Casa Blanca style guy. He doesn't use any fancy space man weaponry, he keeps his trusty big iron with him at all times. I'll admit, the amount of lethal ammo available to him is a bit high, 4 reloads per machine with a total of 4 machines I can think of off the top of my head. However, there is no reason to remove the gun itself or stun ammo for that matter.

[Walrus]

I think removing the detective from security would be a bad idea, along with not making any sense. I suppose you could frame it as the detective being fired and then becoming a PI solely for profit, but that makes him even more of a vigilante than he was before. If he's not on the sec team then why should he hold himself to the high standards (lol) the sec team is held to?

Remove his sec access entirely. He's not a member of security like (mostly) everyone plays him to be. He's a non-biased, third party who's supposed to help find out who the bad guy is.

What? He has always been (and currently is) a member of the security team. You say this like it's some sort of established truth but it's clear you're pulling it out of your ass in an attempt to legitimize your point.

If you're a sec officer/the HoS and see the detective being shitty, arrest him. He shouldn't be in sec hawking over the lockers waiting to snatch a stun baton, nor should he be arresting crew for petty crimes and trying to be the warden in the brig.
Even better, play as the detective yourself and set a good example! Get drunk at the bar, chainsmoke everything you can get your hands on, *monologue everywhere and confuse people, solve crimes and actually cooperate with the sec team etc. Maybe the dorks usually playing detective as a supercop will learn something, even if they're not the current detective (you) is being good!

[UrsulaMejor]

walrus, the detective has never been security. he's always been a PI type detective. the fact no one plays him this was is a fault in his design