Goonhub
01-04-2013, 08:35 AM
let us discuss spy mode (conspiracy) in this thread
When spy mode was first put in the rotation there was a nice thread discussing it and suggesting changes, but as far as I can tell nothing was done. Actually it was made a little more confusing when people were told that in some cases they need to ignore the "you've been implanted" message and everyone was confused and etc. etc.
In a recent chat the consensus was that spy too often played like rev
but unlike rev it is salvageable.
off the top of my head here are some typical problems in spy mode--
here's some thoughts
Spy Equipment: Some people think that spies should have no syndicate uplink at all. I dunno about this since it basically means whoever gets access to sec gear first has the definite advantage, but at the very least I think a lot of people want the EMAG to go. A single traitor with an EMAG can cause a load of chaos on the station; 4 spymasters all with EMAGs basically means the brig is rendered worthless & every secure area is opened and looted in the first 5 minutes of the round. removing the EMAG would also cut back on people's ability to load up on laser guns, which would be.. nice.
Time Limit: Rev used this to try to prevent people from simply hiding and to keep rounds from dragging on forever. Well it didn't really work on the former but at least helped the latter.
Escaping: Spies have to escape on the shuttle, but this typically means either: a) Spies are causing overt chaos, hull breaches everywhere, the hallways littered with bodies (hello rev) or b) One of the heads is a spy, and will refuse to call the shuttle until they're 99% sure they've already won (zzzzzz boring). The shuttle presumably means that the spies are all brought to one area for one final conflict, except since the safest bet is to camp out the escape arm with lasers and slaughter everyone to play it safe, it's... dull. Either with or without the time limit, letting spies "win" if they've completed their objectives (regardless of where they are) would be nice.
Implantees: Security implants, rather than made useful, were removed from the game after conspiracy was put in rotation... dunno why. If sec gets drafted into a spy's team then there is no reason for that spy to be covert, because there is no one left to put up organized resistance to them. The HoS in particular is everyone's #1 target because of armory access. Should sec officers be immune to spy mindslaves? Should that protection extend to Captain/HoP? making more people immune would slow down spy rounds a bit, but also mean the average lowly crewmember is more likely to get involved and give the neutral faction a better chance of victory, so... I think it deserves some consideration.
Spy Implantees: folks probably have different opinions on this, but I think spy heads should probably have a natural resistance to being mindslaved, especially if syndicate uplinks (and freedom implants) are removed... Currently implanting a spyhead means you've basically killed that spy head, AND you get access to all their recruits. in the past I've seen this cause a snowball effect where one spyhead basically has an army, at which point, once again, why bother being covert?
Side Objectives: this ties into the issue above, how do you make conflict occur and make the spies come out of hiding? there were a couple thoughts on this in chat:
1. Teams need to have contradictory objectives. If every spymaster is assigned to kill the AI, well okay the AI is dead in 10 minutes, now what? How about instead:
"spy A would have to fuck over spy B, spy B would have to fuck over spy C and spy C would have to fuck over spy A"
As to what kind of objectives though would be... I'm not entirely sure. the standby of "kill X/keep X alive" runs into the constant problem that people die/kill themselves often without any outside help. maybe some folks here can think of cool ways to stage that.
2. Teams need to steal 1 Unique, Trackable item, of value solely to the Spies. The item would be disguised as & replace one standard item on the station, like a flashlight or a piece of junk in maintenance or whatever. (This would be to prevent metagaming, noticing there is an item in a certain place and immediately deducing Ah, it's spy round!) All the spies get a pinpointer that leads to it, as if it were a nuke disc.
What does this accomplish? Well rather than just walling up QM and waiting until the end of the round, it'd force spies out of their hideyhole. It promotes covert conflict, since everyone wants to get the item but at the same time wants to monitor it to see who else is trying to get it.
It also gives the neutrals a tool against the spies. If they get their hands on a pinpointer and get the item themselves, they can try to keep it out of spy hands, or use it to flush spies out. I think it'd open up some cool possibilities. (another feature to keep rounds from dragging out is that if there is only 1 spyhead left AND they have the objective item, they win and the round is over. if that last spyhead is killed before they get their hands on the item, the crew wins. like wiz/nuke, no need to wait for the shuttle)
Whoa: that's a lot of words. :ugeek: oh well
When spy mode was first put in the rotation there was a nice thread discussing it and suggesting changes, but as far as I can tell nothing was done. Actually it was made a little more confusing when people were told that in some cases they need to ignore the "you've been implanted" message and everyone was confused and etc. etc.
In a recent chat the consensus was that spy too often played like rev
but unlike rev it is salvageable.off the top of my head here are some typical problems in spy mode--
- once one team decides to be overt, every other team basically loses any advantage to being covert, turning it into a rev-style grand melee brawl. in a typical spy round this means that whichever team loots the armory first wins, because it's an easy winning strategy, so why not?
- rounds can really drag out when, ala rev, one team decides the safest way to "win" is to hide. spyheads can also lose if they fail to eliminate a braindead spyhead who did nothing, so once again rampaging often seems like the best strategy.
- the unimplanted crew ("neutrals") have a reason to try and oppose the spies, which is a definite improvement over rev. except, the first people to get enslaved in spy mode are typically the captain (and with it the AI), hop, hos, and security, so even if the neutrals get organized, they're hopelessly outgunned.
- the issue of implanting a spyhead/someone who is already implanted is confusing due to contradictory statements by admins, and also, mindslaving a spyhead is basically an instant kill over them. freedom implants block this but basically no one knew about this for awhile and even then I don't think it's generally understood.
- the side objectives (steal XYZ/shut down AI) are a bit lacking and don't do anything to enhance the gameplay.
here's some thoughts
Spy Equipment: Some people think that spies should have no syndicate uplink at all. I dunno about this since it basically means whoever gets access to sec gear first has the definite advantage, but at the very least I think a lot of people want the EMAG to go. A single traitor with an EMAG can cause a load of chaos on the station; 4 spymasters all with EMAGs basically means the brig is rendered worthless & every secure area is opened and looted in the first 5 minutes of the round. removing the EMAG would also cut back on people's ability to load up on laser guns, which would be.. nice.
Time Limit: Rev used this to try to prevent people from simply hiding and to keep rounds from dragging on forever. Well it didn't really work on the former but at least helped the latter.
Escaping: Spies have to escape on the shuttle, but this typically means either: a) Spies are causing overt chaos, hull breaches everywhere, the hallways littered with bodies (hello rev) or b) One of the heads is a spy, and will refuse to call the shuttle until they're 99% sure they've already won (zzzzzz boring). The shuttle presumably means that the spies are all brought to one area for one final conflict, except since the safest bet is to camp out the escape arm with lasers and slaughter everyone to play it safe, it's... dull. Either with or without the time limit, letting spies "win" if they've completed their objectives (regardless of where they are) would be nice.
Implantees: Security implants, rather than made useful, were removed from the game after conspiracy was put in rotation... dunno why. If sec gets drafted into a spy's team then there is no reason for that spy to be covert, because there is no one left to put up organized resistance to them. The HoS in particular is everyone's #1 target because of armory access. Should sec officers be immune to spy mindslaves? Should that protection extend to Captain/HoP? making more people immune would slow down spy rounds a bit, but also mean the average lowly crewmember is more likely to get involved and give the neutral faction a better chance of victory, so... I think it deserves some consideration.
Spy Implantees: folks probably have different opinions on this, but I think spy heads should probably have a natural resistance to being mindslaved, especially if syndicate uplinks (and freedom implants) are removed... Currently implanting a spyhead means you've basically killed that spy head, AND you get access to all their recruits. in the past I've seen this cause a snowball effect where one spyhead basically has an army, at which point, once again, why bother being covert?
Side Objectives: this ties into the issue above, how do you make conflict occur and make the spies come out of hiding? there were a couple thoughts on this in chat:
1. Teams need to have contradictory objectives. If every spymaster is assigned to kill the AI, well okay the AI is dead in 10 minutes, now what? How about instead:
"spy A would have to fuck over spy B, spy B would have to fuck over spy C and spy C would have to fuck over spy A"
As to what kind of objectives though would be... I'm not entirely sure. the standby of "kill X/keep X alive" runs into the constant problem that people die/kill themselves often without any outside help. maybe some folks here can think of cool ways to stage that.
2. Teams need to steal 1 Unique, Trackable item, of value solely to the Spies. The item would be disguised as & replace one standard item on the station, like a flashlight or a piece of junk in maintenance or whatever. (This would be to prevent metagaming, noticing there is an item in a certain place and immediately deducing Ah, it's spy round!) All the spies get a pinpointer that leads to it, as if it were a nuke disc.
What does this accomplish? Well rather than just walling up QM and waiting until the end of the round, it'd force spies out of their hideyhole. It promotes covert conflict, since everyone wants to get the item but at the same time wants to monitor it to see who else is trying to get it.
It also gives the neutrals a tool against the spies. If they get their hands on a pinpointer and get the item themselves, they can try to keep it out of spy hands, or use it to flush spies out. I think it'd open up some cool possibilities. (another feature to keep rounds from dragging out is that if there is only 1 spyhead left AND they have the objective item, they win and the round is over. if that last spyhead is killed before they get their hands on the item, the crew wins. like wiz/nuke, no need to wait for the shuttle)
Whoa: that's a lot of words. :ugeek: oh well
