Convair880 - LLJK 4 - 10AM ish, 8/11 -

[Derkolm]

Admin name: Convair880
Server: LLJK 4
Date/Time: 10 AM... ish? I can't get the exact time.
Synopsis:

Alright, long story short. I had the following miscreant objective: "You're a real jerk! Heckle people, panhandle, mooch, try to get evicted from various departments." So, I went to do that because the barman was being a real dork to people. He decided that, because I was farting repeatedly in his bar, he would hunt me down while I fled from the bar and then shoot me to death with his shotgun, which he then attempted to do, sending me into crit. I went and got healed, but that's not the important part.

Then I went back to the bar and found him handcuffed (hit him a few times with the fire extinguisher before I realized that, but stopped shortly after, and when he was definitely OK). Then I took him to security, and repeatedly called for security help, during which no security helped.

I was infrequently choking him to fart on his face when I realized he was in crit, so I CPR'd him harmlessly back to the land of the living. Again, he wasn't gonna die at all, I was just waiting for security. At this point, Convair880, without contacting me or questioning the situation, immediately gave him free revives so he could start attempting to beat me to death (which he immediately did with gusto) and then, when I fought back, Convair880 full-stripped me, again, all without contacting me in any capacity. The guy started beating me up again, and only then did Convair PM me, at which point I had to start pointing out that the guy was murdering me (again) and he disappeared.

Then he went silent after the guy disappeared, so I had no idea what was up. I went back to the bar to do my miscreant objective more, and the barman beat me up again and perma-KO'd me with superdrinks shortly before stripping me and having some traitor(?) kill me with mutagen. He claimed that this was all OK, because I was provoking him by farting, nippletweaking, and calling him a "shitclown" once. So Convair basically spent half of my life in the round giving unfair advantages to a guy who was murdering me for absurd reasons, and then said it was OK because I was provoking a guy (which seems to be the miscreant objective).

I could honestly see why this would be bad, but if it's bad, I don't understand why you have miscreant objectives that say to do it in the first place. If we're not allowed to do nonviolent following of our miscreant objectives, why are the miscreant objectives there in the first place? Convair880 said he put us in different places to separate us, but he never told me anything about actually separating us, he was just almost completely silent the entire time and flatly refused to give me any of the same healing he was giving the guy who kicked me into crit repeatedly (which he gave him at least twice), aside from a few messages that he sent me to condemn me and claim the ordeal was all my fault.

Log: Scrolled out because I was nippletweaking aggressively at the barman.

Extra Information: Nothing relevant to the incident. Because I don't want to leave this blank, here is a picture of a bee

[RedbeardRum]

I was observing most of this event, and I think it's worth mentioning that before this, you'd tried to strangle me for hitting you against the floor once (I missed the toilet when I was trying to give him a swirly at round start). While this may not've been a terrible reaction at first, you continued to chase me through the hallways and try to choke me after I'd explained that I was just trying to swirly you.

And later, you were standing in security choking a handcuffed guy, while asking security to come (you know you could just pull him to prevent him from running away, right? works as long as he's handcuffed). It was not "infrequently", as you can realise pretty easily by seeing that he was in crit. You then tried to continue doing this after you both escape the security lobby. Did you consider just... not strangling people?

[Derkolm]

I was observing most of this event, and I think it's worth mentioning that before this, you'd tried to strangle me for hitting you against the floor once (I missed the toilet when I was trying to give him a swirly at round start). While this may not've been a terrible reaction at first, you continued to chase me through the hallways and try to choke me after I'd explained that I was just trying to swirly you.

And later, you were standing in security choking a handcuffed guy, while asking security to come (you know you could just pull him to prevent him from running away, right? works as long as he's handcuffed). It was not "infrequently", as you can realise pretty easily by seeing that he was in crit. You then tried to continue doing this after you both escape the security lobby. Did you consider just... not strangling people?

I grabbed at you once in the hallways, intending to floorsmack you, not choke you to death. I was choking the other guy to get him on the ground and fart on his face, because he was being awful and got really worked up about it, and since he'd near-murdered me it seemed reasonable.

[RedbeardRum]

I grabbed at you once in the hallways, intending to floorsmack you, not choke you to death. I was choking the other guy to get him on the ground and fart on his face, because he was being awful and got really worked up about it, and since he'd near-murdered me it seemed reasonable.

You only need a regular grab to floorsmack, not a tightened neck-grab, for future reference.

[Derkolm]

You only need a regular grab to floorsmack, not a tightened neck-grab, for future reference.

Learn something new every day apparently.

Anyway, core point of this is to complain about Convair880's uncommunicativeness, my choking is a fairly irrelevant element.

[Conor12]

immediately gave him free revives so he could start attempting to beat me to death (which he immediately did with gusto) and then, when I fought back, Convair880 full-stripped me, again, all without contacting me in any capacity. The guy started beating me up again, and only then did Convair PM me, at which point I had to start pointing out that the guy was murdering me (again) and he disappeared.

I saw this from the IRC.

The other guy would not shut the fuck up about being 'griefed' so Convair healed him to calm things down. It was not so he could attack you. Convair was yelling at the guy to stop attacking you, that's why he didn't PM you immediately. He was pretty swamped when dealing with it, looking at logs and answering PMs and checking if he should stop the fights.

[Convair880]

From my perspective, the aspects you take issue with come down to three shortcomings:
1) It wasn't immediately clear to me who started the fight.
2) Not immediately making use of the prison zone.
3) Perceived lack of communication.

1) I jumped to the security lobby to check out an adminhelp, and the barman was naked, handcuffed, and already in critical from being strangled. Taking immediate action to save the guy from dying, I healed him once, not realizing this would also remove the handcuffs. As a result, you guys started fighting again. I didn't have an opportunity to check the logs yet, and it appeared to me you were the aggressor in that particular situation and that the barman was simply trying to defend himself. Since you chased after him in the hallways and pulled out a fire extinguisher, I made the spur-of-the-moment decision to make you drop everything. Seeing that the situation didn't improve at all, I teleported the barman away to break up the fight. Was this a rash move? Possibly, but the situation was hectic and I had to act on incomplete information. The proper course of action would have been to send both of you to the prison zone for questioning before doing anything else, avoiding the whole drama in the first place.

2) Pretty much the same thing. I usually avoid sending people to the prison zone if I simply need info, because it feels like punishment to some players. It was a bad idea not to use this admin tool here, though.

3) Fair point, the communication could have been better. Sorry if you've had that impression that I ignored your PMs, but I did take them into consideration. At first, I was reading through two player logs and exchanging PMs with the barman at the same time, and I can only do so much multitasking. Took some time, and once that was taken care of, I provided you with a short summery and asked you not to intentionally provoke the guy for the rest of the shift. Well, you did just that and spend a couple of minutes annoying the barman again - to me, he appeared to be rather calm considering he was being strangled earlier and also didn't attack you immediately. You couldn't have know this, but you didn't pass out because of one sip of bourbon. A changeling used his neurotoxin sting and then force-fed you a radium pill. Once you passed out, the barman even called for a medic and was trying to wake you up. Granted, my ingame explanation could have been more direct, but we usually try to avoid revealing antagonists.

In conclusion:
- I only healed him once for the reasons explained, and it wasn't to give him in edge in combat.
- Should have used the prison zone instead of trying to deal with the situation on the go.
- Don't just assume somebody will get the hint to stop fighting, make it clear to them instead. My bad.
- Roughing up the barman for blasting you with the shotgun was fine. However, I figured what happened in the bar was deserved and I didn't want to interfere with the actions of a legit antagonist.
- Unrelated to this incident, but the barman went on to randomly attack a couple of other players later, and I did ban him for being a jerk.

[Derkolm]

-Cut so I don't spam-

This all seems pretty rational, and I can understand how this happened, then. I suppose you're as aware as anyone could expect people to be about the communications issues for future changes, and it looks like there's nothing more worth pressing on the matter from my end. It sounds like you've taken my issues into consideration to the proper capacity, and a lot of my frustrations are eased, so I feel my complaint is essentially resolved. Thanks for the speedy and reasonable response.