[Idea Discussion] Cargo Gameplay

[Ikea]

Give cargo some kind of money sink, It sucks having 2 million credits with nothing to buy. Also every cargo bay should have the same fabricators.

(Again my personal opinion) I agree, every cargo should have the same fabricators, and by that I mean NONE. Make cargo go to the relevant departments rather than just printing everything and not leaving their department or talking to anyone.

I like cargo not needing to order a crate if someone just goes to them to request a welder and I like them being requested for that. Additionally I don't consider them having to spend 3 minutes just to get a minor item a good interaction and if said item has too high of a reward for its current effort I'd rather replace that item so it has the appropriate level of effort.

[JORJ949]

I like cargo not needing to order a crate if someone just goes to them to request a welder and I like them being requested for that. Additionally I don't consider them having to spend 3 minutes just to get a minor item a good interaction and if said item has too high of a reward for its current effort I'd rather replace that item so it has the appropriate level of effort.

I mainly mean the special department fabricators, specifically the Medical and Robotics ones, because requests for those items should be placed with the relevant departments. I have no issue with them having a general fabricator and the refinery nanofabs.

[GARGATHUGANOKSREVENG]

More logistical concerns

Shipping and receiving is very streamlined, just shove things in a crate and launch them into space. You don't have to worry about things like packaging breakage and insurance, weight and shipping fees, tariffs duties and customs, item class restrictions, etc.

I'd start with having QM have to pay fees for ordering and sending things, but with different cost options depending on expediency

In ye olden days, you used to have a ship that would come in with purchased goods and then you'd load up what you were selling. I think bring that back as a lower cost option, with the ability to save on goods by bulk ordering them while keeping the current system as a higher cost priority shipping.

Ideally you'd give QM a dock, which might require remapping, though maybe you tie in visiting merchants into this and use that space?

I didn't know QM used to have a ship but that sounds way cooler than what we currently have and if there's any way to improve the game it'd be to have more stuff like that I think

[Skotcher]

Give cargo some kind of money sink, It sucks having 2 million credits with nothing to buy. Also every cargo bay should have the same fabricators.

(Again my personal opinion) I agree, every cargo should have the same fabricators, and by that I mean NONE. Make cargo go to the relevant departments rather than just printing everything and not leaving their department or talking to anyone.

I agree with the idea in its theory, but not its practice. Items that can be obtained by fabricators will just lead to busy work in a way that I think detract from interaction rather than add to it. There's not much meaningful interaction to: "print me these items". Assuming the path of least resistance, what I see happening is a QM will knock on the door of a department and get a scan with a device analyzer (or have a borg do it for them), then have the fabricators printed back at Cargo. I do it for clothing fabs on the maps where that's missing from cargo.

I think it's better to have requisitions require the skills of the specific department in question. For example, Botany requisitions require machinery and know-how to pull off. Yes, QMs can get everything they need to fulfill the req, but it requires a much greater amount of knowledge of game mechanics to do. I personally think it would be better if requisitions pulled from the knowledge of each department. As a botanist, I enjoy completing botany requisitions because the larger satchel and strange seeds are worth it to me. They're tangible upgrades that reward me for my effort.

I've thought about some changes that could be done for Cargo, but I'll write them in a separate reply.

[Kotlol]

Here's an easier idea.
Cargo has an "ALL FABRICATOR" like Engineering does but has to load in blueprints, it starts with some basics, but can be added more over time.
They also have to buy the blueprints from the correct fabricator to be added as a speed up.

[Lord_earthfire]

Here's an easier idea.
Cargo has an "ALL FABRICATOR" like Engineering does but has to load in blueprints, it starts with some basics, but can be added more over time.
They also have to buy the blueprints from the correct fabricator to be added as a speed up.

Every fabricator can accept blueprints. Csrgo doesn't need an empty one for that.

[Kotlol]

Then it just needs 1 fab. Done.

[Red Dog Dragon]

Figuring a Quartermaster is literally the department that supplies others, I find it kind of backwards how easy it is to supply departments (when they actually order something important), but more engaging it is to try to fill off station requisitions.

Seems to me like other departments should have less supplies and be more dependent on QM's to get them more, while the departments that could bring money to the station, be the source of cash to fund cargo.

It's fun building TTV's and making shiny pressure crystals, but deep down, I know the money cargo can make selling it doesn't really mean a whole lot.

[GARGATHUGANOKSREVENG]

Figuring a Quartermaster is literally the department that supplies others, I find it kind of backwards how easy it is to supply departments (when they actually order something important), but more engaging it is to try to fill off station requisitions.

Seems to me like other departments should have less supplies and be more dependent on QM's to get them more, while the departments that could bring money to the station, be the source of cash to fund cargo.

It's fun building TTV's and making shiny pressure crystals, but deep down, I know the money cargo can make selling it doesn't really mean a whole lot.

idk with minimal effort u can get like 150,000c from ttvs with pressure crystals and if you get mechanics access with printing more transfer valves you could make way more, faster than a qm does
putting more dependency on cargo sounds fun until you realize if you're without a QM you're gonna have to start breaking into places with your bare hands

[Egregorious]

I mainly mean the special department fabricators, specifically the Medical and Robotics ones, because requests for those items should be placed with the relevant departments. I have no issue with them having a general fabricator and the refinery nanofabs.

I don't think that's a good idea. It's not adding new reasons to interact, it's just removing them from cargo and giving them to other departments. Neither are those departments set up as a provider usually, half the time they're locked away from most crewmates with few avenues for requests. So it's actually adding hurdles to interaction that wasn't there before.

By doing this you're not going to promote people asking cargo for a scalpel, and cargo going to medical to get a scalpel for the requester - the requester is just going to go to medical and cut out the middle man. So the problem you're trying to fix is cargo fulfilling requisitions with their own fabs, and in that case it makes a lot more sense to rebalance requisitions to remove the easily-accessible items instead. Especially since the workaround is going to be QMs immediately getting fabs built in cargo roundstart in anticipation for requisitions anyway.

The whole point of cargo to the rest of the crew is to be the place to go if you want to obtain equipment that isn't available at round start. A big leech on cargo's interaction stems from new additions and QoL implementations making it easier for people roundstart by giving them shit within arms reach rather than making them go to cargo for it. Reducing their value to the crew is absolutely not the direction to go, in my opinion.

[JORJ949]

I don't think that's a good idea. It's not adding new reasons to interact, it's just removing them from cargo and giving them to other departments. Neither are those departments set up as a provider usually, half the time they're locked away from most crewmates with few avenues for requests. So it's actually adding hurdles to interaction that wasn't there before.

By doing this you're not going to promote people asking cargo for a scalpel, and cargo going to medical to get a scalpel for the requester - the requester is just going to go to medical and cut out the middle man. So the problem you're trying to fix is cargo fulfilling requisitions with their own fabs, and in that case it makes a lot more sense to rebalance requisitions to remove the easily-accessible items instead. Especially since the workaround is going to be QMs immediately getting fabs built in cargo roundstart in anticipation for requisitions anyway.

The whole point of cargo to the rest of the crew is to be the place to go if you want to obtain equipment that isn't available at round start. A big leech on cargo's interaction stems from new additions and QoL implementations making it easier for people roundstart by giving them shit within arms reach rather than making them go to cargo for it. Reducing their value to the crew is absolutely not the direction to go, in my opinion.

I do not see people go ask cargo for a scalpel or anything from their fabricators anyway to be honest they already just go ask medical. Instead this is focused on cargo having to leave their department to fulfill requisitions.

[Red Dog Dragon]

Figuring a Quartermaster is literally the department that supplies others, I find it kind of backwards how easy it is to supply departments (when they actually order something important), but more engaging it is to try to fill off station requisitions.

Seems to me like other departments should have less supplies and be more dependent on QM's to get them more, while the departments that could bring money to the station, be the source of cash to fund cargo.

It's fun building TTV's and making shiny pressure crystals, but deep down, I know the money cargo can make selling it doesn't really mean a whole lot.

idk with minimal effort u can get like 150,000c from ttvs with pressure crystals and if you get mechanics access with printing more transfer valves you could make way more, faster than a qm does
putting more dependency on cargo sounds fun until you realize if you're without a QM you're gonna have to start breaking into places with your bare hands

I didn't mean in terms of how much money the pressure crystals bring in, I mean that people don't really seem to need much from cargo, so whatever money I could add to cargo's budget doesn't really matter.

And yeah, dependencies between departments will always have a shortcoming of "but what if nobody is playing that other department" so no system would be perfect.  But can't command directly run Cargo already?  I'm pretty sure both the CE and Captain can.

If playing QM is made more fun/engaging, there should be more people playing the role.

[Skotcher]

I really enjoy Cargo, but I agree that it does fall into the Roboticist pitfall of having 15 minutes of necessary work and then nothing for most shifts. In no particular order, here are some ideas I've thought of for cargo. I'll try to explain my reasoning for each one as I go along.

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1. Improved Requisition Rewards

What: Any requisition that requires the cooperation of an external department should provide much higher payouts. Item rewards from these requisitions should feel impactful and should be desired by the department putting in the effort to fulfill the requisition, but said items should not be necessary to the main gameplay loop. Some items should be uniquely obtainable through these requisitions.

Why: Requiring the cooperation of an external department is an opportunity cost for that department. Providing meaningful rewards incentivizes the department in question to fulfill the requisition, as it benefits both parties. Eager cooperation from both sides is preferable to apathetic cooperation. Unique items also provide opportunities for Antags to cooperate with cargo (or work in cargo) and get their hands on goodies that can't be obtained anywhere else. 

Here are some examples of unique items I think would be beneficial: 

• Increased capacity Hypospray (60u) for Medical. 
  
• Increased capacity beaker box (150u or 200u beakers) or a single ultra capacity beaker (500u) for Science.
  
• Portable Mining Charge Fabricator for Mining (feed materials, gradually spits out mining charges by using it in hand).
  

2. Requisition Purchases

What: Untangle requisitions from market updates. Requisitions must be purchased using available cargo funds before they can be fulfilled. Refreshing the requisition page can be done via a purchase using cargo's budget. Some requisitions will remain free in order to prevent budget death spirals.

Why: Requisitions should feel like a purposeful investment. The current system of saving requisitions relies on luck and ease of fulfillment. With the current system, if no good requisitions come around, you don't pin any and you let them refresh. If good requisitions do come around, you can likely fulfill them within the allotted time period. Requisitions that take more than a single cycle to complete are not often worth saving, and the ones that are typically have unique rewards/goodies (ex: requisitions that can give energy guns/tasers). 

If, instead, requisitions are something you must purchase/bid on in order to fulfill, it both provides something for Cargo to spend their cash on, and it incentivizes QMs to actively work on the Requisitions they've purchased. Untangling requisitions from the market update by allowing a requisition refresh (via purchase) will also let QMs set their level of engagement with requisitions; slow rounds can let QMs knock out requisition after requisition, while active rounds will probably pull the focus towards helping the crew.

External departments will vary in how willing, or how able, they are to assist with requisitions. If botany/kitchen is offering to help fulfill requisitions, but the only ones on the page are medical requisitions (and medbay is busy/unwilling to fulfill these), then the current system just means you pray that the market refresh will give you requisitions for botany. You are at the whims of lady luck. Being able to update the requisitions page will give Cargo options if one or more departments can/can't assist with fulfilling requisitions.

3. Supply Requests

What: Allow for traveling merchants and specific Traders to be "ordered" by cargo. A single traveling merchant ship can be persuaded to visit the station by offering credits via the budget. A list of all possible merchants that could visit could be displayed alongside % chance of appearing. More money can be invested to increase the odds of these % chances, possibly up to 100%. Some key traveling merchants are hidden and can be unlocked by the use of an Emag (Ex: The Totally Legitimate Trader). Every market update, one Trader can be requested for a sum of credits dependent upon a variety of factors (i.e. How late into the round, how many times it's appeared before, how many times it's been requested, etc), guaranteeing that Trader appears for the next market cycle.

Why: Traveling merchants offer unique and fun items (and unique and fun possibilities) for all players. Being able to influence which merchants show up, and possibly when, could be beneficial for setting up gimmicks in and outside of cargo. This may also provide reasons for why certain crew members may want to contribute their own personal funds to the cargo budget via the console in order to bring these merchants to station. Some plans on station for crew may involve utilizing specific items from traders. Being able to request those traders can provide interaction with cargo that goes beyond a "wait-and-see" approach.

4. Request Pin-pointer

What: When a crew member orders/requests a crate, a pin-pointer that's available from the QM locker can be used on the crate to pinpoint the location of that crew member. 

Why: Crew members placing requests can be a hassle to track down, and sending the crate to a cargo pad that is at or near that crew members workplace takes a "wipe your hands clean of the matter" approach. Providing a more direct, personal way for crates to be delivered gives opportunities for QMs (and by extension, Mail Couriers) to be more personal with crew on station. If Cargo contains multiple QMs, some can act as a parcel delivery service. It also provides ways for antag QMs to track down crew who may be more isolated, or for antags who are not part of cargo to lure out a QM to an isolated location. 


5. Supply Runs/Salvage Missions/Repair Jobs

What: Azones. A variety of missions/jobs that can be selected based on either: prerequisites being met (purchasing the job, mining finding an asteroid on the magnet tied to a job, crew finding key items from debris field/pre-fabs, etc) or by randomly appearing alongside requisitions to be purchased (see idea #2). Travel could be facilitated by shuttles, similar to traveling merchants, the mining shuttle, or Johns Bus. 

Why: Azones need not be relegated to Research, and the idea of departments bringing in required items to set up an azone adventure fits quite nicely with being supplied for said azone adventure by cargo itself. It's very opt-in content that I think provides more opportunities for adventure involving all sorts of different crew without using Telesci. 

This idea is probably the most investment heavy option and is really listed here for the purpose of idea generation, rather than itself being the fleshed out idea. I think many people are on board with idea of "more azones" but the actual implementation of it requires far more than some shmuck (me) saying "yeah, more zones would be cool".

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These are all just ideas. Nothing is concrete, all of it is mutable, and I've listed them because I'm curious to see if any of them resonate with others. I'd love to know if the ideas inspire further ideas or iterations, or if they seem like valuable changes/additions to the department.

[Red Dog Dragon]

I do like the "upgrade" supply idea, since a common worry of reducing the amount of supplies other departments have to make them more dependent on Cargo, what happens when there's no QM? Either creating new "upgraded" items or make some of the larger capacity items scarce means departments could still get by without a QM, but can benefit when they do.

[RSOD]

another idea: department goals
each department gets a few goals every shift (science - make X of a specific reagent; botany - sell X produce; mining - sell X ores, etc.)
once a department's goals are met, QM gets the ability to order a few COOL DEPARTMENT ITEMS (2-3 for the first order) then it goes on cooldown, before those items are buyable again.

anyways here's some more qm item ideas for each department:
Botany - UV work light (an UV variant of the work light that lights up a 3x4 space in front of it)
Mining - Blast shield (one-handed "shield" that gives you increased explosion resistance when blocking with it. would be funny if it could theoretically let you tank a TTV)
Mining - Radiation dampener (device that, when active, actively reduces radiation in an area (de-greens items, lowers rads on people inside, makes radioactive ore not irradiate people)
Medical - Multi-tank Hypospray (akin to the cyborg hypospray, but instead of regenerating, you get 3 separate tanks you can switch between)
Medical - Medical Stress Ball (every squeeze gives a very small BRUTE and BURN heal as you squeeze styptic and silver sulf out of it)
Engineering - Mechanical Gloves (insuls with a built-in multitool and an upgraded sparks special)
??? - Nano-Sticker (nanoloom maps only. automatically slowly repairs any clothes it is attached to)
Civilian - Mechani-coin (when put into a vending machine, buys a random item for free. may be used for mischief with access locked vendors like sec gear or the armory ammotech)
Civilian - Booster Boots (when filled with combustible reagents, gives you a dash ability that speeds you up for ~2 seconds and leaves a quick decaying trail of fire)
??? - Wasteman's Whammer (1 clip size, one handed break-action that accepts only scrapshot)