Complaint Glowbold, Sylvester, 2/3/26, 2:34 AM EST

[Malfian]

Admin: Glowbold
Server: Sylvester
Date/time: 2/3/26 2:34 AM EST
Synopsis:
   During this round, Seeks-the-path was a traitor who arrived on the station with syndicate equipment. The station presented him as an external threat and he was taken out by Security. I was involved and painted him red as a joke. I go to the Listening Post to check if it's opened and trade with the merchant, who Seeks left his ID in. After buying syndicate pod weaponry and stickers to show off to the crew, Seeks comes back and says his plans to blow up stuff. I confront him about it and he LOOC says that what I'm doing is against the rules. With my previous conception of rules around the Listening post and escalating against antagonists, I rebut his accusation. Even still, I leave after he says he won't blow up the station when I question him again. 
   When I arrive to the station via the main hanger, I find and hop onto a pod with rocket launchers in them, and I get out when I find out its Seeks. I start heading to evac with my syndicate loaded miniputt to show off, where I meet Seeks blowing up escape with that pod. I call out Seeks on the radio and pod fight with him with a sec pod there as well. After Seek was successfully blown up and I arrive to Centcom, I see Seek's ghost observing me, I explain to him my previously held understanding that going to the Listening Post and fighting clearly malicious antags is fine and that I never went to the Post to hunt him but to trade with the merchant. Then Glowbold Amessages me, I explain my side, and he says that it's fine on Classic, but not on RP. 
Logs: 
Station Announcements on the Syndicate
Spoiler!

Captain's Office Announcement by Eats-Lead-Paint (Captain)
We've got a rogue ssyndie. You know what to do!
Security Announcement by Asena Ulusoy (Security Officer)
What you need to do crew is to STAY THE FUCK AWAY from our line of fire so we can SHOOT the redsuit down...
Security Announcement by Jimmy Novach (Head of Security)
Yes there is a syndicate agent on station. We are actively hunting them down. Any sightings reports to us. They havent shown any- oh hey they're detained. Glory to.....good work guys
[spoiler]
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "hi"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] says, "oh hey"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] asks, "usssssing my money?"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] says, "oh"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] says, "OH"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] asks, "this is your money?"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] says, "I DIDNT NOW"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] says, "KNOW"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "yeah"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "now"
Seeks-The-Path hisses, "ssssshow me your afiliation"
Marin Ullman says, "im with the USSR" 
Seeks-The-Path asks, "yeah?"
Seeks-The-Path asks, "not sssyndicate then?"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] asks, "da?"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "you ussssed my fundssss"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] says, "sorry about that"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "ussssse your own fucking money"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "in fact"
Seeks-The-Path hisses, "get the fuck out"
Marin Ullman says, "as you wish"
Marin Ullman says, "comrade"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] says, "before i leabe"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "move"
Marin Ullman asks, "what do you plan?"
Seeks-The-Path hisses, "I'm blowing sssshit up"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] says, "listen"
Marin Ullman says, "i dont know if i can let you do that"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] asks, "why?"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "sssssecurity already took all my gear"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "ssso"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "jusst go away"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] asks, "your going to blow up my station?"
LOOC: Thedude6969: this is against the rules to do fyi
[b][b]Seeks-The-Path[/b][/b] asks, "you the captain of thisss ssstation?"
[b]LOOC: Malfian: its not agianst the rule to go to the outpost after nukies is ruled out[/b]
[b][b]Seeks-The-Path[/b][/b] hisses, "get out of my way"
[b][b]Marin Ullman[/b][/b] says, "i dont wanna hurt you"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "then leave"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "you're --BLURGH"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "not"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] says, "are you"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "sssyndicate"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] asks, "going to blow up the station?"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "ssso go away"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "no"
[b]Seeks-The-Path[/b] hisses, "I'm not"
Marin Ullman says, "ok"

Podbay
Spoiler!

[Pod C-474] states, "Warp-1 Engine is coming online..."
[Pod C-474] states, "Nanotrasen Life-Support System is coming online..."
[Pod C-474] states, "Robustco Communication Array is coming online..."
[Pod C-474] states, "Standard Sensor System is coming online..."
[Pod C-474] states, "40mm Grenade Launcher Platform is coming online..."
Marin Ullman asks, "this yours?"
Seeks-The-Path (inside Pod C-474) hisses, "get out"

Podfight
Spoiler!

WAU [145.9] declares, "ESCAPE IS GETTING ATTACKED!"
Pretty Much Royce Naik [145.9] says, "What i said is true by the way, I cant lie im a scientist"
Pookums [145.9] says, "EXPLOSIONS AT ESCAPE"
Marin Ullman says, "BLYAT"
Marin Ullman whispers, "you LIED"
Marin Ullman [145.9] says, "you LIED"
Tony Pijamas [145.9] says, "Explosion sec podbay"
Marin Ullman whispers, "COME BACK TO EVAC, SEE WHAT HAPPENS"
Marin Ullman [145.9] says, "COME BACK TO EVAC, SEE WHAT HAPPENS"
Pepper Rhinder says, "Huh."
Marin Ullman says, "NOT ME"
Pepper Rhinder says, "Huh."
Marin Ullman says, "NOT ME"
Pepper Rhinder exclaims, "You DO look suspicious though!"
Pepper Rhinder [145.9] says, "MENDI NOO"
WAU [145.9] states, "DAMN SYNDIE KILLED MENDI"
Pepper Rhinder [145.9] says, "THEY GOT BLOWN CLEAR TO HELL"
[Encounter sec pod and describe syndicate's pod]
Marin Ullman says, "NTO ME"
Seeks-The-Path [145.9] hisses, "I'm eating their brain"
Eats-Lead-Paint [145.9] hisses, "MENDI NO"
Marin Ullman says, "BIG"
Jimmy Novach [145.9] asks, "WHAT!?"
Tony Pijamas [145.9] says, "NOOO"
Marin Ullman says, "WHITE"
Tony Pijamas [145.9] says, "VILLAIN"
WAU [145.9] declares, "Wow- he even stole the brain!"
Marin Ullman says, "ITS BIG"
Marin Ullman says, "AND WHITE"
Allie Vime [145.9] exclaims, "That's messed up!"
[pod fight ensues and ends]
Marin Ullman [b][145.9][/b] says, "GLORY TO THE USSR"
Unknown [145.9] says, "To the min pod with the gun"
Unknown [145.9] says, "Appreciated"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] whispers, "GLORY TO THE SOIET"
Marin Ullman [b][145.9][/b] says, "GLORY TO THE SOIET"
[b]Marin Ullman[/b] whispers, "SOVIET"
Marin Ullman [b][145.9][/b] says, "SOVIET"

After Round Discussion
Spoiler!

[spot Seek's ghost]
Marin Ullman says, "sup"
Marin Ullman says, "seeks"
Marin Ullman says, "the crew can atatck clear syndicate"
Marin Ullman says, "trying to hrm the station" 
Marin Ullman says, "also" 
Marin Ullman gasps, "can go to the lsitenign psot"
LOOC: Thedude6969: you used syndicate gear, with my money
Marin Ullman gasps, "sssooo???"
Marin Ullman gasps, "yyyoou cccnaa dooo tthhhaattt"
LOOC: Jacob_waltz: you really shouldn't hunt down syndies unless the captain declares that something you should do
LOOC: Thedude6969: right
Marin Ullman gasps, "ii waaaantteedd tttto bbuuyy ffrrrroomm tthhhee mmeeeerhccnneeettt"
Marin Ullman gasps, "tthheeennnn sssseeeekks cammee bbaackk----BLLLUURRRGGHH"
Marin Ullman gasps, "thhenn sssseeeekss ccaammee bbaacckkk"

Ticket
Spoiler!

Admin PM from Glowbold
Hey, what was up with the listening post?
Reply PM to-Glowbold: Hi, so after Seeks was apprehended by security. I went to the listening post to meet the merchent buy stuff. Then Seeks came back and said his intentions to blow up the station. I confront him about it and then leave when they said they wouldnt blow up the station. When they did, I took a pod and fougth them
Reply PM to-Glowbold: Its to my knowledge that after a certian point, when nukies is ruled out, cre can go to the post to meet the merchent
Admin PM from Glowbold
fine on classic, not cool on RP
Reply PM to-Glowbold: Ok, thanks

Extra Information: 
   There are multiple issues I have. I mulled over these rules for a long time. Sometimes I slip up but I do try my best. I made an entire admin report and complaint to try and understand how the rules around the Listening Post worked. In the metagaming page, the entire provision on the Listening Post is,
Spoiler!

Going there at the start of the round 'just in case' is not welcome. You are free to pursue and engage known operatives, and may follow them in if they have unlocked the Listening Post, but don't camp there, make it inaccessible, lie in ambush with your pod, or the like. If a reasonable amount of time has passed and nuke can safely be ruled out as the current round type, non-antagonists are also allowed to visit the station under those circumstances. These restrictions don't apply to other antagonists.

Also important is the escalation rules, which state,
Spoiler!

2. Escalate through roleplay before attacking other players. The goal of the roleplay server is character interaction and interesting scenarios. Both crew and antagonists are expected to roleplay escalation before engaging in hostilities. As an antagonist, your goal is to increase, not decrease, roleplay opportunities. Give people a sense of dread, an obvious motive, or some means of roleplaying and reacting, before you harm them. As security, your priority is the crew’s safety and maintaining the peace. You should treat criminals fairly and determine appropriate consequences for their actions. Enemies to Nanotrasen such as confirmed non-human antagonists and open syndicate members may be treated harshly.
4. As an antagonist you are free to kill and grief, provided you escalate per rule 2. You are not required to be evil, but you do have a broad toolset to push the round forward and make things exciting. Treat your role as an interesting challenge and not an excuse to destroy other people’s game experiences. Your objectives do not allow you to ignore any rule, RP or otherwise. As an antagonist, you are not protected against being murdered or griefed, but it is expected that the crew roleplays and does not kill you just for the sake of killing an antagonist.

   There was no nuke and I didn't go there to hunt anyone, I only confronted Seeks after they told me they wanted to blow up the station, and even then, I left when he said he wasn't going to. The argument could be that since this is on the Metagaming page, these are provisions for Classic and RP operates on stricter rules based on Rule 5 "Don't use out of game info". This distinction between RP and Classic doesn't make sense because there are no provisions specific to RP in relation to the Listening Post if that's the case. Also, in this situation where a syndicate member seems to have arrived in a space suit, it can be assumed that they are operating from a foreign base somewhere.
   Now, it could be argued that the spirit of the rules where broken. The crucial part is I don't think that's the case. I followed the spirit of the RP server. I gave Seeks, an open syndicate member, multiple chances to make sure I wasnt unduly hindering his antag round. I then fought him on a relatively even battleground in a pod fight after he blew up Escape in a major act of escalation. He claims there is an issue with me using syndicate weaponry but how? There's no rule anywhere that says you can't EVER use syndicate weaponry. I don't understand how an antag could expect crew to give them this much leeway to cause destruction and chaos and not get a response like mine, much less be supported by staff. 
   I believe there is a misapplication or inconsistency in the rules, because the rules on paper don't align with how they were applied in this situation. 

[glowbold]

Hey there, thank you for posting this feedback. I want to start out by apologizing - I gave you a short answer in the moment, but that wasn't and isn't fair to you. In the future, I will make sure to follow up with more details to ensure maximum clarity.

In this particular instance, a staff assistant taking it upon themselves to procure high-grade pod weaponry from the syndicate black market when security is alive and well strains rules we have around wanting to keep your job on our RP servers. I would feel similarly if a staffie picked up a SPES and some AEX ammo that was left out and kept them on hand for a while just in case an antag attacked. In addition, knowing where the post is and heading there is something we can both do OOC, but knowing where the super-secret syndicate base is as an entry-level job IC is a stretch. This is the crux behind the statement "fine on classic, not cool on RP", and I owed you that explanation when I reached out to talk with you.

That said, you're absolutely right in identifying inconsistency here; the rules around the listening post have not been updated in accordance with design changes over time. When that statement was put into the metagaming page, listening post access worked significantly differently - you had to have an agent ID to get in and out of the listening post front doors. The relatively recent change to hand-scanners unlocking the post for all should have caused us to re-review this rule statement, but that didn't happen at the time. The admin team is now in discussion about the the metagaming listening post rule clause you mentioned.

Outside of the rules, there are some changes to game mechanics that will make things more clear through in-game interactions. I've already added contraband values to Kinetic pod weaponry to better communicate their illegal nature. In addition a PR is up that will have CARL no longer do business with non-antagonists; other black market vendors will be less discerning, as always.

Once again, I apologize for the confusion and frustration here and thank you for the report.