RP antag critters

[CalliopeSoups]

So I've been working on fleshing out mimics and it's made me want to see antag critters playable on RP. The problem with that is most antag critters suffer from one of two problems, either they're too combat heavy with little roleplay opportunity (fire elementals, gunbots) or they're seen as cute and babied by the crew (space phoenixes. 'the werewolf problem'). Working on mimics and seeing them tested on RP has made me realize what I believe makes antag critters work in an RP environment. These factors are:

- A menacing appearance. Critters should look particularly dangerous and/or creepy to avoid crew fighting for the antag critter frequently. 
- Annoyance, not combat. Your goal as an antag critter on RP should be to scare, annoy and prank. The more thematic spooks and non-lethal annoying tactics an RP antag critter can get up to, the more likely people will want to kill them but not feel as though they're an overwhelming force to fight unless you support a full player antagonist.
- Glass cannon status. Unless summon-able by an proper antagonist, I don't believe an antag critter that can take punishment and kill with straightforward combative power could ever work on RP. You should have escape and stealth options rather than weaponry.

For example, new mimics can escape through disposal chutes, gnaw a random limb off of someone and become very fast by disguising as a pen etc. If they're caught though it is very easy to put a mimic down, though there are cases where they could tank blows by disguising as something large, just to get them to a disposal chute. There would need to be a large skill disparity, a clever plan or an alliance with a full antagonist for them to get kills.

I think if another two antag critters were made with these factors in mind we'd have a fun little pool of creatures to rarely play as, along with changeling critters which I think could just fit in as is. I think the only case I'd personally want critter events disabled in would be if a wraith is in play. This leads me to my questions, I'd like to hear any concerns over this idea in general AND some ideas for RP friendly antag critters. I may end up coding one if I like it. Who knows, if general antag critters aren't wanted there could be other ways to implement funny creatures.

[Snowy :D]

Fun ghost role stuff is always welcome in my eyes. I think the evil cleanbots and firebots would work well in RP. As for new antag critters I think an interesting idea would be something that can benefit individual crewmates but be a detriment to the station as a whole, sort of like the faustian bargain kit the chaplain can get. Maybe put a larger focus on setting traps rather than direct combat.

[CalliopeSoups]

An antag critter focused on traps could be fun. Like some sort of mini trickster wraith...

I had a couple ideas myself since posting this thread:

- A reworked Floor Goblin, likely under a different name and design. You would be a very slippery glass cannon focused on theft, possibly even charging up the ability to hold an entire object above your head (with a blacklist). Perhaps instead you could even eat the object, given how carrying it under the floors could either be or look buggy. To balance things out you would have weak arms, so you wouldn't be able to hold guns and high damage melee weapons like the current Floor Goblins.

- Artifact critters. Small artifacts with crawling legs that come with a couple base abilities lifted from mostly handheld artifacts, along with one unique ability based on which artifact type you spawned as. These things would live to annoy people, but would return an artifact on death. Would take some doing to brainstorm all the abilities and balance them though.

- Roboroach. Elevate these boys to a higher level. I'm not entirely sure what they could do but it'd be something with tech. Perhaps they could mimic voices over the radio once every so often, or latch onto borgs to temporarily ion law them.

[Angel]

I really like this suggestion, what if plague rats could spawn as antag critters? maybe a nerfed version that can't grow to max size and can't place nests, since a max size plague rat can beat a sec off in a 1vs1

[Asterion0]

Fire elementals and spiders could *probably* fit in (and also already exist on classic), albeit they'd definitely be the more lethal of the bunch. Spiders would probably be the better fit due to being creepy little critters who aren't super deadly unless they gang up their little jump on and thrash around attack. Their ability to hide under tables and spit webs/spawn more spiders if killed also makes them more suited to be a pest when tiny than actually dangerous (could be reflected in their bite/pounce being weaker in small form?)
Fire elementals would definitely need to be a little bit changed to fit on RP as not a strictly lethal threat though, since the only reason they're not THAT deadly is because a fire extinguisher or fire suit basically cripple their effectiveness against you. Both of which are very readily available and orderable.

The artifact critter thing does sound very fun though, especially if it's spawned by an artifact as a rare fault (maybe a one time fault? I barely get how arts work tbh). Also gives a proper incentive for scientists to deal with the things, since they'd want that yummy yummy art drop.

[CalliopeSoups]

I've seen fire elementals in action, I think they'd be too much for RP without making a super nerfed version. Even so, I think my main issue with seeing them on RP is the plasmafires. Spiders possibly? As for plague rats that's something I was considering. I'd either spawn them in small groups compared to pop size or do as Angel said and make a nerfed version. Maybe instead of focusing on eating until you're max size, you can only get to medium size BUT you regain the ability to spawn in more plague rats. For consistency's sake though I'd probably go with the former idea, likely with only spawning 2 unless you get to a pretty high pop.

I do see one issue with things like plague rats and ling critters, these things WILL add confusion to the round and possibly send sec on a wild goose chase with no goose. I don't think I'd know if this would be good or bad without more input from roleplayers, especially sec.

---

Been thinking about artifact critters some more. I think these would be fun on classic still if not on RP.

All artifact critters get the base kit of a forcefield wand ability, being able to crawl under doors/tables and one unique ability based on their artifact theme. Always spawn at least two and aim to not spawn duplicate themes.

Silicon:
- Eat items to poop out a variety of things from emagged bots to single mininukies, kinda like drone artifacts.

Wizard:
- RNG spell based on WATT LEHFUQUE with mostly different results pulled from large artifact effects. Could just be the wizard spell to avoid bloat.

Precursor:
- Two ideas. Either give than a random ability pulled from a whitelist of all critter abilities, or give them a more powerful version of the charge up energy orb arm artifacts. In the latter case, make a new arm artifact to go with it.

Eldritch:
- A drop down list of minor scary effects, essentially wraith's spook. Could also just be random like wizard's, could also just be the spook ability drop down to avoid bloat.

Martian:
- Soak up fluids and duplicate them. They'd passively sponge up anything they stand on and get an ability to lock on to the last chem soaked up, then another to start a flood. Balance flooding with either a hefty cooldown or the need to stay still while you do it, or both. This. Might be too close to pissing.

Lattice:
- If a lattice artifact critter spawns, the next event will be a rad storm (If even doable.) They can apply a list of unique faults to artifacts with their ability, but they always drop an antidote, likely a handheld lattice artifact. They... COULD touch artifacts to turn them on/off, but that might be a step too far. They'll be able to carry tools to do that anyway.

[CalliopeSoups]

Another idea to pin to the list, there was discussion in the spriter discord channel about possibly reworking the closed project brain slugs to be a less impactful antag critter instead of a midround antagonist. These new versions would not possess or mindhack but instead come with a variety of little ways to mess with or help out your host. The idea being the slug could punish its host for not giving it what it wants (eg: this round Clarence the slug wants to only eat discount dans) or give them boons for meeting half way. You'd have a couple personality traits or moods given roundstart to act as RP prompts like objectives, though you could do whatever you wanted with it. Either that or they literally need a randomised type of food or drink, making that conflict happen through a mechanic. Perhaps, if starved, the slug will eventually die but its abilities will be enhanced in an attempt to convince the host to play along.

I do think a full possession mechanic could work if it was VERY brief, like gaining control just long enough to slap someone or vandalize something.

[RSOD]

I do think a full possession mechanic could work if it was VERY brief, like gaining control just long enough to slap someone or vandalize something.

control a secoff, quickdraw and stun dump captain, watch as your host now has to deal with an angry captain and a lot of trouble.
aside from that it seems really funny to get 3 seconds of "QUICK DO EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO DO" before you lose control again

[Angel]

I've seen fire elementals in action, I think they'd be too much for RP without making a super nerfed version. Even so, I think my main issue with seeing them on RP is the plasmafires. Spiders possibly? As for plague rats that's something I was considering. I'd either spawn them in small groups compared to pop size or do as Angel said and make a nerfed version. Maybe instead of focusing on eating until you're max size, you can only get to medium size BUT you regain the ability to spawn in more plague rats. For consistency's sake though I'd probably go with the former idea, likely with only spawning 2 unless you get to a pretty high pop.

I do see one issue with things like plague rats and ling critters, these things WILL add confusion to the round and possibly send sec on a wild goose chase with no goose. I don't think I'd know if this would be good or bad without more input from roleplayers, especially sec.

---

As a sec main, I would love if antag critters could spawn as midrolls, like buttcrabs or plague rats, so there's a little more confusion of what's going on.
This game is all about incomplete information and chaos, so it's nice that seeing a ling critter running around isn't guaranteed that theres a ling, in a way it also counters the meta knowledge we have of assuming "oh thats a plague rat, we must have a plague wratih"

[BioFrequency]

I was thinking about some critter ideas. And the biggest roadblock I was finding was the same problem that got Werewolf and Ice Birb kicked out of RP servers. - Too many people getting too friendly with the baddie.

So I thought of this..... What if the antag critter had an occasional self inflicted Madness toxin effect?

A space bear or two spawning in runs the risk of people treaty them likely teddy bears. But, if every now and then they went briefly mad and attacked everyone recklessly - it would go a long way towards breaking up overly friendly treatment of the 'pest'

I think if such a mechanic was implemented for these Antag critters - you could effectively open the flood gate on using existing assets and critters. Even if they are cute - you can FORCE them to be deadly and a danger to people around them.

[Vulwin_Gilran]

If you have to force them to attack everyone around them to make the people around them treat them as a danger either just dont add them or just make them npc critters.

[Asterion0]

Forcing antag critters to attack people at random would not really solve any issue and just make more. Kind of kneecaps any rp potential because the critter could just randomly rush you despite being mid negotiation or whatever. Would be ESPECIALLY bad on the critter side to just randomly lose control and if you were tactically running under tables or baiting people around a wall and intelligently engaging in a fight to suddenly have your character rush up to the enemy and start hitting them while you just sit there and watch as you become 20x easier to kill.
It just also wouldn't fix the worse offenders as WW showed since people would just go "oh no! It was so out of their control! You can't REALLY blame them for it, they're innocent!" anyways.

[Kotlol]

Make it MUCH simpler.

RP Antag critters cannot attack players "YET" unless they eat enough food.
Once their belly is full can they become the monster antags they are.
Also let their health slowly deplete if they don't eat...

Every food/organs/blood/spillage they can eat gives points till they can go full antag mode and can kill humans and eat them?

[Silent Majority]

I think if they can't talk and only emote it'd help