Can Robotics be Saved?

[Solenoid]

I feel like a big crisis for roboticists is that there genuinely is not enough to do. Despite the fact that some stations can have up to 3 roboticists, I feel like there's hardly even work for 1 most shifts that I play.

That's why I wanted to make this thread and share some of my suggestions, in addition to hearing what ideas the community has.

So, my ideas from most extreme to least:

1. Make roboticists a medical doctor sub-role, like how mechanics became engineers. I don't really like this solution, but equally I feel like roboticists lack identity as their own distinct class of doctor at the moment. They are the 'doctor who puts together 3-5 borgs at roundstart, slides blank modules into the console when there's downtime, and maybe makes extra shells or puts a cyberorgan into someone if there's a reason to' job. Again, I don't like this option, but it feels pretty realistic if nothing changes to make the Roboticist more unique
   
   
2. Make a new Robotics research system similar to genetics that allows for new part sidegrades and a mild progression system for new upgrades for cyborgs. I know this'll be met with a 'wyci', but I'm honestly open to working on something like that if it ever becomes a real thing. I think that if creating cyborgs/robots allowed for Robotics to earn a research currency to unlock new borg limbs and stuff for cyborgs, you'd both have more of a reason for roboticists to actually do their job, and also a reason for cyborgs to return to Robotics later and get new pieces. Right now, you can get the best parts from roundstart and lots of cyborgs never return to Robotics once set up for the first time unless they want a cerenkite cell or some upgrades they print and equip without any work on your end.
   
   
3. Reduce the amount of roboticists to 1 on smaller maps and 2 on larger ones(instead of 2 and 3), this idea is kind of boring and could lead to teaching newbees being harder, but it also prevents new players from getting put into robotics and having basically nothing to do all shift. This would also maybe lead to cyborgs being ignored if the roboticist is inattentive, not my favorite solution either, but it's an idea.
   
   
4. Expand existing systems in Robotics. Stuff like guardbuddies are already in the game, and could be given to Robotics instead since they don't really make sense in Science. The various little bots that Robotics has could receive some similar function to SecBots and the sec whistle, maybe allowing Roboticists to whistle for MediBots, CleanBots, or FloorBots to move to specific places and do things. I don't know how much this'd add to the role, but it might at least encourage them to leave the department more and interact with the station and their robots. Maybe add new requisitions requiring the creation of a cyborg with specific parts to earn some cyborg upgrades in return.
   
   
5. Finally, give players more of a reason to go and get cyberorgans/robot limbs. Maybe allow humans to get sturdy cyborg arms and gain additional punching strength or something, or add new eye options that would be more useful for more job types. This is the least extreme in my opinion because despite involving the addition of new mechanics, it doesn't change the robotics gameplay loop at all, it just gets more people to interact with it.
   
   

What do you guys think should happen to Robotics? I know that a lot of my ideas I proposed would involve some pretty big amount of spritework and coding, but I'm not trying to demand anything of the community or any development to begin, just to spitball ideas and see what others think could work/not work. None of these suggestions aim to reduce cyborg player autonomy, because I think making your round fully dependent on someone else is kind of lame and doesn't actually make the Roboticist role more fun.

[Lefinch]

Pretty much what you wrote. 4. in particular is a common refrain even if would need some map shuffling. 2 sounds fun. 5. has had some peripheral recent help by relocating/hopefully encouraging people to get said stuff at robotics. I would be extremely surprised to see anyone PR 2 or 4 with an objection, though perhaps I just can't see one.

I think in particular 2 highlights a thing that could help robotics because it wouldn't necessarily rely on other departments to engage with. People have to lose limbs or we need borgs, but having a system that you engage with that lets you perhaps have a "second round" of borg upgrades might help pace out the shift and means a robiticist could plug away.

I vaguely wrote some notes on paper last year with an idea for robotics where you had some kind of "remote" access to borgs/securitrons you could plug around with. A) to nosily spy on your robits B) so you could "augment" them with some coding as they go about their work. However I never got really far with it.

[LorrMaster]

One idea I have is to give the roboticist vials of nanobots as a set of new reagents. These nanobots would last a long time inside the bloodstream. Then they could do various things like send/receive packets, build tiny items & implants inside the body, heal/damage/heat up when signaled, and generally be an interface between reagents and electronics. And maybe get emagged into grey goo behavioral adjustments.

[Lord_earthfire]

Robotocist would be fine, if the role would be respected.

Borgs print their own modules/upgrades, doctors doing advanced surgery. Heck, borgs even opening up robotocist for doctors is the worst aspect. People suicide when borged, demanding to be cloned. The disrespect and ahelpable behaviour of others is extreme against robotocist.

I'm normally not a fan of ID locks, but i would strongly consider that for this job. But even that hadly helps because the MD exist and borgs can ignore them.

Please, Ahelp people for the "stay in your lane" rule.

[Emimiyu]

First one seems viable until someone put an upgrade to robotics honestly. It kinda baffles me when there is a mindset that no one plays roboticist for the surgery, they just want to hangout with borgs and ignore everyone else. The roboticist work just kinda end when borgs already got their needed early loadout or some person coming in for sechud eye. On both rp and classic, I ended up being a second doctor anyway and the only person who open up robotics for the cyberorgans (doctors are still the one who do surgery because "Huh? Roboticist actually cares about human players?")

So merging it with meddoc doesn't seem like an issue really. If people need to play the roles as "someone who hangouts with sillicon players", well, they can still go to robotics if it is merged

[JORJ949]

1: What if you couldn't select cyberlimbs at all in customisation and had to go get them at robotics
2: What if MDirs were more willing to allow robotics to build multiple AIs? I've never had an MD let me do this on RP and not only does it give you more AIs to build it also comes with their shells and maintaining those.

[Lefinch]

I suspect like a lot of things, now that we've -had- the feature of robot limbs for a while, removing that option is going to be a hard sell for people that got attached to it.

Pro of that is they might then go to robotics to get those limbs, but I suspect that one might be a difficult fight. I'm cool with it though.

EDIT: though saying that, maybe Robotics could have some "custom tailoring" to said fancy roundstart robo limbs. Special tints, maybe go a little DMC5 with it and give a limb a little extra utility with the hand? hmm

[The Panna]

Just some general ideas I have for Medbay/Robotics. Just spit balling, these are just things I think are interesting 

- Rework staffing levels to scale with current population count. Lowpop = Two doctors, one Roboticist and then it scales up.
  It sometimes happens on lowpop that on rounstart you have three Roboticists and no Doctors because the RNG gods demand it. 

- Robotics training for Roboticists. Non trained crew can "slip up" when placing a robotic organ and could take multiple attempts to get in and drop.
  This would make Robotics a bit more distinct from medbay in general which I think is sorely needed.

- Only the Medical Director and Robotics can have access to enucleation spoons. This will give Robotics more to do and it will only impact those who want a cybernetic
  replacement since crew without an eye/s can simply have it be slipped right back in by a doctor. To have medical doctors have access to eyes see "Grody Organs"
  I know it is common practise to bring anyone who wants anything eye related to Robotics, but I would like to ensure that all cybernetic matters go straight to Robotics.

- Small robots like Securitrons, Medibots, Cleanbots and etc. Can malfunction due to ion storms. They will not become "evil" just stop working and say "Error, Error, 
  Error" or something of that nature. Crew would need to bring them to Robotics for them to fix. Robotics would need to do a card swipe, use a tool and then replace 
  the wires. Beepsky and Securitrons have an emergency response if attacked but they can be moved, if destroyed they will alert Security as normal.
  This would give Robotics more to do in a round.

- Give Medbay a "grody organ" vendor and the medical fabricator will have it's ability to make robotic organs removed. This vendor offers low quality organs for Doctors
  to give patients a quick fix in case of emergency. These organs are useable but less effective, perhaps they can give debuffs or other negative effects.
  [Grody lungs have low stamina, grody liver is bad at processing alcohol]
  Patients with grody organs are incentivised to seek robotic organs from Robotics, or Medical Doctors can harvest monkey organs to replace the grody organs.
  For me this change will give both roboticists and doctors more to do and it would make Robotics a more necessary.

This is what I have come up with, this is all very much extremely undercooked. But I wanted to put it out there.

I would also like to mention I think that merging Robotics with wider Medbay is not a good idea, I have three reasons.

1. New players would have trouble learning this potential new system, where it's basically two roles in one. Before they would get Roboticist and focus on Robotics, but
    this new system would have them try to learn two roles at once.
2. I think this would make crew who want to do Robotics basically compete for space and tasks. Robotics has an issue with cliques and players who are well established
    would have a major unfair advantage since cyborgs would prefer them over other players.
3. Robotics and the Roboticist role does need a bit of change. But it does not need to be removed.

[Silent Majority]

Borgs requiring maintenance periodically could be nice. Mske yhem able to self do it but at hald speed?

[RubberRats]

1: What if you couldn't select cyberlimbs at all in customisation and had to go get them at robotics
2: What if MDirs were more willing to allow robotics to build multiple AIs? I've never had an MD let me do this on RP and not only does it give you more AIs to build it also comes with their shells and maintaining those.

I don't think these changes would have much positive impact. At least on RP, most people taking robotic limbs are doing so for flavor reasons, and I don't think having half a dozen people shuffling in to receive their Canon Prosthetics at roundstart in addition to the cyborgs already there for their mandatory screenhead and treads makes for especially compelling gameplay. Additional AI cores are at most two extra things to do, and having multiple of them can be hard on antagonists trying to stay stealthy.

I think robotics could benefit from having something to do when they don't currently have patients. I like the idea of custom robot critters. Might take a crack at them once I'm finished with my current projects.

[Torchwick]

This is coming from someone who started in robotics and still, despite its flaws and the negative connotations that it carries due to its use in the past, loves the role.

I love, love, love robotics; but that goes without saying. I've taken a step back recently because we've had some newer roboticist blood stepping in to work the shift, and like many have pointed out, 3 roboticists is too much. Limiting the option to 2 seems fair, even on busy rounds-- especially when many doctors have the mentality that surgery is a thing they can do easy-peasy. Locking cyber organs to the robotics fabricator was a good start, but I've still come across instances of doctors asking for the organ and still doing the surgery themselves. This in itself isn't a bad thing, and sometimes the docs DO need to do surgery, but sometimes it overshadows robotics as a whole.

Locking the role to a maximum of 2 is handy for training. Speaking as someone who has helped folks learn robotics in the past, it's very handy to learn the role when you have another roboticist to help. If we limited the option to 1 roboticist, we'd remove the potential of a newer player joining and having specialized robotics help. While there's not always enough to do for two people, I think keeping the option open for training or just for business is a good idea.

Now we're onto my 'suggesting a thing I have no means of doing myself'.

An idea I had that would probably require a lot of work leans into the aspect of a 'pre-scan'. While I know that cloning and pre-scans for cloning are a somewhat controversial topic, I think it would be neat to have a robotics variant to this. If the devs continue to take the path of keeping pre-scans, it would be nice to have a robotics spin on this. Allow people to use clone disks as things that they can scan onto a spontaneous intelligence core-- doubling as useful for puritan / cyborg-revival-pref security players, and as a new thing for roboticists to manage in general. (This also opens up the potential for traitor roboticists being able to sneakily steal clone records for their evil syndicate frame army).

Again, that's probably very big idea and I am in no way familiar enough with the code to crack at it, but that's a concept I had as a robotics main myself. Just... something that fits the theme of being the bridge between cyborgification and the crew. I dunno. Probably needs some adjusting or work, but that's one of my 'fixing robotics' hot takes. So sorry for my robotics rambling LMAO

[RSOD]

for an idea regarding "give borgs a reason to come back" and "give roboticists more things to do", have borgs collect points of "data" as they do things, after which they must return to robotics, as there is a storage limit and you would not obtain any further points while at max.
these points could allow researching specialized versions of modules that come with their own little gimmicks, new limbs that give abilities / extra tools (i.e. rubber piston arm that adds a harmless empowered shove tool, knocking victims ~3 tiles away) or just new upgrades (maybe lock stuff like heat / force shields and teleports behind this, for starters). maybe have researching cost points and then require a series of minigames to properly unlock?

that's my current idea on what roboticists could do, but perhaps just give them a side job other than taking care of cyborgs

[Asterion0]

My idea for a 'research system' would be that roboticists get a new tool to scan people for cyber organs, and for every cyber organ they have they get points to deposit in a 'research computer' (maybe different point amounts for different organs). Could unlock some better upgrades for borgs using it, extra special limbs, more unique cyber organs, etc.
RSOD's data idea could also be something cool to go with it, as a sort of 'passive' generation depending on how many borgs exist so you're not stuck with getting nothing if people refuse to get organs.

[Frank_Stein]

[*]Expand existing systems in Robotics. Stuff like guardbuddies are already in the game, and could be given to Robotics instead since they don't really make sense in Science. The various little bots that Robotics has could receive some similar function to SecBots and the sec whistle, maybe allowing Roboticists to whistle for MediBots, CleanBots, or FloorBots to move to specific places and do things. I don't know how much this'd add to the role, but it might at least encourage them to leave the department more and interact with the station and their robots. Maybe add new requisitions requiring the creation of a cyborg with specific parts to earn some cyborg upgrades in return.

[*]Finally, give players more of a reason to go and get cyberorgans/robot limbs. Maybe allow humans to get sturdy cyborg arms and gain additional punching strength or something, or add new eye options that would be more useful for more job types. This is the least extreme in my opinion because despite involving the addition of new mechanics, it doesn't change the robotics gameplay loop at all, it just gets more people to interact with it.

[*]
This is the direction I'd like to see it go in, especially the first part. Being able to build robots that you then direct to do tasks or make current ones easier makes sense for the role. Maybe expand the bot roster with Cargobots that can carry things, Lampbots that act as mobile light sources, etc.

Specific upgrades to cyberlimbs and organs would be neat. Something akin to modules for cyborgs, limb modules would just add specific abilities ties to them. For instance, you could have an arm module where there's an internal liquid reservoir built into your hand hand you can fill and dispense from it into and out of containers you're holding. Another could be replacing your unarmed long distance click attack with something else

[Vulwin_Gilran]

The idea of limb modules does sound interesting, and it also immediately makes me think about being able to find some in space/being able to get them as a syndicate. I definitely think you'd have to insert the upgrades into the limb when its detached, to encourage people actually getting put under the knife.

even having a more detailed system with like, screwing open the "maintenance" hatch of cyber limbs/organs to cut/pulse or even attach signallers too could be pretty interesting. Also would be a good replacement to "i hit this heart a bunch till it JUST broke enough to give me funny emag effects". It also gives something fun for an antag roboticist to do, like if the captain came in to get, a new heart lets say, and you sabotaged/installed a signaller so you can send a signal to induce short failure/stamina loss. You could also have these wires be randomised per round, so if a roboticist wanted to figure out what improves and what renders them non-functional they would need to do some testing on monkeys, which would encourage some interaction with genetics.

I have NO IDEA how hard that would be to code, i just personally think it could provide some other avenues as a traitor roboticist instead of just syndiborgs and it sounds cool.