[MERGED PR] Remove the hygiene motive from RP

[Retrino]

not much to say that hasnt been said. good pr, hygiene would not be missed. its also worth pointing out that hygiene Has been reworked and adjusted several times. even with the attempts to make it more reasonable (decreasing fluid decay, reducing amount of clothing it takes to get clean, etc) hygiene is still consistently the most disliked and discussed motive despite being just as mechanically accessible as food and drink. the points made in this thread and threads before this just continue to show how disproportionately hygiene takes away from the rp experience.

[Silent Majority]

hygiene's primary purpose seems to be, as far as I can tell, to make you stop rping every 15 minutes to wash your hands or you get made fun of for being stinky. I would not miss it, I support this.

[JOELED]

I would love a total overhaul of hygeine that adds a bunch of ways to manage it to make rp more interesting but that's a giant order and most seem to hate it as it is now so i'm cool with just dropping it personally

"Removed pending a rework" feels like a good spot for it IMO.  It'll draw attention to any areas that feel like they're actually missing in its absence, so any proposed rework can focus on hitting those.

[Spyritdragon]

not much to say that hasnt been said. good pr, hygiene would not be missed. its also worth pointing out that hygiene Has been reworked and adjusted several times. even with the attempts to make it more reasonable (decreasing fluid decay, reducing amount of clothing it takes to get clean, etc) hygiene is still consistently the most disliked and discussed motive despite being just as mechanically accessible as food and drink. the points made in this thread and threads before this just continue to show how disproportionately hygiene takes away from the rp experience.

I have to admit, I'd very much miss the hygiene motive. It's already so easy to stay on top of your motives, and for me hygiene as a motive adds a very interesting measure of immersion, and as mentioned by many before, a reason to actually get out of your department and use a part of the station that's not very often traveled. It's the only motive that isn't solved by running two feet to the nearest vending machine, buying three fries for what might as well be zero money, and devouring them all before going back to your station. 

I do understand everyone's points about how it gets in the way of RP, and I'd understand it's removal, but I for one will very much miss it if it does go. To me, it really adds to the feeling of being an actual, genuine person living and breathing in this space station.

[Lord_earthfire]

I feel like we should add 1 or two other motives that disrupts isolated group-RP. Then i would be fully for removing hygiene.

The problem here really is thrist and hunger being 100% ignoreable if you don't plan on fighting.

[Kotlol]

I feel like we should add 1 or two other motives that disrupts isolated group-RP. Then i would be fully for removing hygiene.

The problem here really is thrist and hunger being 100% ignoreable if you don't plan on fighting.

How is it you RATHER ignore eating and drinking over the mechanic that gives annoying warnings?

I actually only ignore food and drinks if I am working and roleplaying hard, wich mostly is when I play security.

Hygiene I ignore the most. Unless I am a head or doctor, Hygiene is my lowest priority.

Anyway... if we want to stop isolated group RPs. Then add mechanics like "Fire drills"
Or stuff like "Life support outage" where the life support fails and the air slowly becomes stale, making you breathe heavier.

You know things that make you go: "I don't want to die so let's move out of here."
If there is no O2, you'd avoid that area even with life support. And this gives Engineering something to do.

EDIT: Maybe replace it with a "stress" mechanic. Where it builds up over time and when it hits max. Certain tasks just gets harder to do or more tedious like "failing surgery"
Forcing the charater to move out of the stress area and into the cafeteria or other leisure areas like the pool to cool off.
Heck maybe if you aren't an athiest, the chapel regens your stress down the most. Or even being bible smacked by the chaplain. (gives them something to do)

[Lord_earthfire]

How is it you RATHER ignore eating and drinking over the mechanic that gives annoying warnings?

Well, it's simple: they don't give annoying warnings, so i forget about them. Once i realize i could fill them is when my character randomly walks past the bar. At that point i'm in the red for 10+ minutes. With hygiene, i see it the moment my stink lines appear.

The moment i really pay attention to hunger/thirst is when i'm an antag, because the penalty for ignoring them actually matter in this situation.

[Kotlol]

I just thought up more stuff for the "Stress Mechanic"

Otherways to lower it: "Weed and comfort food"
Maybe other chemicals known to lower stress will help.
Anything addictive will lower stress like Smoking and Drinking.

Now stress even flows better into the "Funnier mechanics" of our game.
Naturall I think Security and Antags will be stressproof as they will roam regardless, as well as the Captain.

Rest will have to leave their stations for stress breaks or be drinking/using weed to cope.

[Waffleloffle]

I'm gonna be real, the stress motive you're outlining sounds like all the worst parts of hygiene and the old motives (back when them being low had a chance to cancel your actions) but with no way to cheese it back up quickly

[JOELED]

Not a fan of the proposed stress motive, also feel like new motive suggestions could probably get their own discussion thread IMO to keep ideas about them together

[Kotlol]

I'm gonna be real, the stress motive you're outlining sounds like all the worst parts of hygiene and the old motives (back when them being low had a chance to cancel your actions) but with no way to cheese it back up quickly

Eh same... I just felt like brainstorming something that sounded cool on paper, but now thinking about it.. it's just hygiene but worst but insted of showers.
It has a lot of spots to go do something or add funny mechanics. I was more thinking of a lot of interactions... but now that I sit down and think. It's a horrible idea.

[noidedman]

I like hygenies current implementation and dont feel it needs altered, it makes you actually interact with the crew areas of the station and creates opportunities for antags to target you.

Imagine the captain who stays on the bridge the entire shift, and an assistant with the objective to kill them. Its much funner for the assistant if the captain is occasionaly vunerable through his routine of going to the public pool to wash off naked occasionaly; you can steal his ID, hat, poison the water ect.

[Cal]

If the captain has not left the bridge all game I SEVERELY doubt the hygiene motive would be the big thing to make him move

[klushy225]

I feel like the hygiene meter is fine, and doesn't take too much to just occasionally wash your hands. I don't have an issue with it- also a good way for me to tell someone to take a break without sounding mean or upfront.

[JOELED]

If the captain has not left the bridge all game I SEVERELY doubt the hygiene motive would be the big thing to make him move

This sums up how I feel about it overall tbh.  People who are already willing to move around the station and take breaks already do so and will continue to do so.  People who aren't don't suddenly agree to because of the stinklines  --  that's why you see so many people with them once the shift time hits a certain point lol.  If the ritual of going to wash off is important to you, then set an alarm for shift time 50 mins and go RP it out.  For the huge chunk of people evident in this thread that it doesn't work on, who find it a distracting inconvenience that plays poorly with other game systems, it should be removed (pending rework or whatever).

also a good way for me to tell someone to take a break without sounding mean or upfront.

This is one of the things I really don't like that hygiene creates  --  it's frustrating when you're in the middle of RP or some gameplay scene and someone tells you to stop and go handle your hygiene motive.