[CLOSED PR] Allow cloning rotten people, add additional cloner defects depending o...

[TDHooligan]

This would make more sense alongside removing pre-scans.

But... That represents a HUGE shift in goon's design ethos around death, and associated with a gross volume of balance implications.

On the other hand, goon's always been a soft touch on being murdered. which is a key part of its' associated light-heartedness.
I don't think either of these suggestions represent good changes, perhaps these disabilities belong to Strange Reagent alongside more ways to fuck with cloning (given it's currently a locked down 3x3 area that you HAVE to explode to ... temporarily disable)

[Ikea]

This would make more sense alongside removing pre-scans.

But... That represents a HUGE shift in goon's design ethos around death, and associated with a gross volume of balance implications.

tbh prescans only get used for like.. 5 people a shift on classic, most of those not new players. I doubt itd seriously impact balance there. It'd impact balance loads on roleplay where half the station gets prescanned every shift, but I think half the station not coming back within 2 minutes of dying is a good thing. 

I think for your average classic round, the cloning changes are way more impactful to new players when you consider it makes the chance of a corpse stuck into a closet much more likely to be found. The only change Id make is to up the minimum skeletonize time that way its more likely for a corpse hidden in a locker to be found and successfully brought to the cloner.

[junori]

Would honestly prefer a nerf to cloning over this. Cloning is already far too powerful, and this just incentivises antags gibbing corpses and such which would no doubt make people saltier than just keeping cloning as is, or even less. Will flat out say this is a bad PR.

[imawxome21]

I feel like this will cause the cloner to be targetted significantly more than it already is on classic. it is already destroyed very often, and noone wants to get borged. I think that having a non-cloning method of reviving non-rotten bodies (besides SR, thats a gimmic that is never used on classic) would be good

[Buttnut]

Cloning is already powerful enough, even with the defects in mind this is an incredible buff to cloning that isn't needed at all. Roboticists already have a tough time getting patients, this would only amply the issue. A bad PR, plain and simple

[KikiMofo]

I will also add in that instead of buffing cloning I would rather buff borging in some way to make people like being a borg more. I don't know when this shift of people hating being borged came from but it's really been bumming me out as someone who use to play roboticist all the time and loved to make borgs.

[Kotlol]

This just means that on classic doctors will be too busy and prescanning will be worthless. On roleplay since doctors are terminally bored all disks will be baked up and hidden that way prescans are even more safe from antag involvement.

This is problem number 1 right now.

If we nerf cloning.. it will heavily effect classic and annoy RP.
If we balance cloning for RP... it will devastate classic.

The problem remains we cannot perfectly balance it for both servers.

If we buff cloning to fit classic, RP will have a field day.

[Ikea]

This just means that on classic doctors will be too busy and prescanning will be worthless. On roleplay since doctors are terminally bored all disks will be baked up and hidden that way prescans are even more safe from antag involvement.

This is problem number 1 right now.

If we nerf cloning.. it will heavily effect classic and annoy RP.
If we balance cloning for RP... it will devastate classic.

The problem remains we cannot perfectly balance it for both servers.

If we buff cloning to fit classic, RP will have a field day.

I mean prescanning as is on classic is pretty niche and doesnt tend to happen much. Prescanning changes wont effect classic much because culturally most people just dont really bother. Im more concerned of the fact that separating stable records from the computer means that people will now hold records separate from the computer, which makes removing those records way more complicated for any antags as they now have to account for where those records are. Also silicons cant do it remotely, nor can you remove records as discretely).

[Lord_earthfire]

This is problem number 1 right now.

If we nerf cloning.. it will heavily effect classic and annoy RP.
If we balance cloning for RP... it will devastate classic.

The problem remains we cannot perfectly balance it for both servers.

If we buff cloning to fit classic, RP will have a field day.

This is more if a general thing, but in my opinion most of the game is balanced around classic. The population of that server simply powergames and nerds the shit out of the mechanics and thus creates the need to balance them. RP does as well but not to that degree (because it's partially against RP rules).

[DasBrain]

Any nerf to cloning also affects the Mindhack Cloning module.

If you do not add the thing to the cloner in medical (which would be noticed quite quickly), you want your own cloning lab.
Now the problem is to get someone to clone there.

Currently, there are 2 options for this:
* Drag someones copse to your cloner, and clone them.
* Use data disks to steal the prescans, and then hope one of them dies.

[Centaur]

I personally don't mind this change as people have already said before prescanning is an issue we deal with which completely negates rotting/gibbing. Having to rush debris field for a cloner upgrade feels annoying and shouldn't be something that's necessary... It should be an "Upgrade". I'd rather make it more punishing for people who get cloned after rotting, monkey cloning isn't punishing and 9/10 you can stable mutagen back into yourself again with no defects.

[TDHooligan]

tbh after more thought this just stops powergamers having to rush necroscan so eh its aight i gues

[KikiMofo]

Remove the necroscan

[SARazage]

Waaaaay back in ye olden times of awful looking sprites, corpses didn't rot and cloning could be done after you'd been dead for 40 minutes.

Everything honestly worked fine then, death being cheap meant people were more willing to take risks, and cloning, as always, was a high priority target. Nobody really had an advantage due to cloning being readily available.

Robotics still had stuff to do. Go grab the bodies and borg them. If they get sassy about being robots they can suicide/set DNR.

Back then cloning was faaaar easier then today: There was no biomatter shiz, no rotting, no defects. People did clone science where they'd clone someone 20 times and start swapping brains around and doing surgery. It was funny. I'm OK with cloning being funny again.

[Kotlol]

Waaaaay back in ye olden times of awful looking sprites, corpses didn't rot and cloning could be done after you'd been dead for 40 minutes.

Everything honestly worked fine then, death being cheap meant people were more willing to take risks, and cloning, as always, was a high priority target. Nobody really had an advantage due to cloning being readily available.

Robotics still had stuff to do. Go grab the bodies and borg them. If they get sassy about being robots they can suicide/set DNR.

Back then cloning was faaaar easier then today: There was no biomatter shiz, no rotting, no defects. People did clone science where they'd clone someone 20 times and start swapping brains around and doing surgery. It was funny. I'm OK with cloning being funny again.

Hmm this makes me think of cloning being different.

Clone-Sci does sound like fun and something else for genecists to do.