New Chaplain Mechanics (Brewing / Herbalism)

[Glamurio]

Chaplains are great flavor-wise, but it goes without saying that they could definitely use some more attention when it comes to gameplay. They currently hover in an odd design area, because all of their tools are responsive methods to antags that might never appear, and besides that they're essentially staff assistants with crematorium access.

But it doesn't have to be that way! Alongside the additions slated in this PR, I'd like to propose a couple new mechanics that would provide both an interesting design space for chaplains, as well as give them new things to do with potential benefit both to themselves and crewmates.

Mortar & Pestle (or something like that)
This would be a big part of the new mechanics. Essentially, this is a tool that allows insertion of materials, be it spices, herbs or minerals, that then get crushed to a paste. This is a more hands-on, lengthy approach to potentially make cool new chems, be it anything from herbal remedies, mashing down frankincense for a censor or milling grain for brewing ale and mead (more on that in a minute).

Herbalism
We have a lot of cool herbs that don't see much usage, things like Contusine, Nureous or Commol are excellent medicinal herbs that often don't get made because Medbay rarely needs them, and Science is usually more directly involved. The basic idea behind herbalism is to create a new, engaging system to create and experiment with herbs and herbal remedies as a ways to create makeshift, weak medicine and poison. If you need surgery or are on death's door, perhaps go to medbay, but if you just have a bruise or don't want to deal with the hustle and bustle, maybe going to the chaplain can be a nice alternative.

The process of making herbal remedies would, of course, begin with combining herbs in the mortar. Here, the general idea is that depending on which herbs are combined, you can create new compounds that change in their strength or effect. Botany comes into play here, too, because while the chaplain might start with some "starter herbs" to grind, to get more or experiment they'll need the help of botanists. Which is good, because it ties into the other system.

Brewing
The keen observer might point out that brewing is already in the game. Kind of. Our "brewing" process currently consists of shoving an item into a still and having it instantly turn into a new chem. That's neither very engaging, nor does it resemble a real brewing process at all. Real brewing looks a bit more like:

• Mill the grain
  
• Naturally, this is where the mortar & pestle come in. Any kind of grain will do, wheat, oats, or even corn. Perhaps we might add more here, too. This will yield the grist.
  

• Mash Conversion
  
• Essentially, you throw hot water and anything else you want to use to flavor with alongside the grist in a container to convert the malt into sugar. Real process is more involved, but for simplicity's sake this will do. This will yield the mash.
  

• Fermentation
  
• This is the only part that's actually in the game, but this is the part where you kind of just "let it sit". Recommended here is a short timer, maybe akin to frying food, that yields different results based on length. Real fermentation takes several weeks, I think we'll be fine with a few minutes.
  

And the last step is to, of course, bottle it. Depending on the potency and amount of water you put it, this would then yield a beverage that contains alcohol, obviously, but additionally could imbue effects on the person. I know that "buffing chems" are a crowded space, but I'm not fussy on the exact details. The main idea here is to give the chaplain something to do, something that will make people come to the chaplain for safe for "we need to use the crematorium" or "we have a vampire".


Censers
One last word on the subject of incense. This was something Leah had pointed out, and I quite liked. Incense is a very religious symbol, and censers are the things that they're kept in to spread the smell. Adding censers would be a very neat thing that goes well with some of the proposed changes, since it requires powder or otherwise procured material that will have to be broken down first before it can be put in and burned, which the mortar & pestle would handle. Because it could be used as a mobile hotbox, the exact effects and amounts would be subject to balance testing, but at least from a thematic perspective it would make sense.

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As always, thoughts, concerns, ideas are welcome.

[Waffleloffle]

I like censers a lot (especially if you can use them as a makeshift flail) but it feels weird to have herbalism as a whole tied to the chaplain, who is neither the dedicated Plant Guy nor the dedicated Healing Guy. if something like it is implemented I'd much prefer it to be something any weirdo with a dream can do if they buy the equipment from cargo or something.

though, in general, in-depth poultice making and handcrafted alcohol brewing feel like exceptionally strange fits for the cartoon sci-fi setting of ss13, honestly?? if you want to play a game with mechanics like that there's a couple of mods for the game vintage story that'll be right up your alley

[Kotlol]

Hmm these things fit the chaplain fine. Approve.

[AgrippaHera]

I love new stuff for chaplain. I do worry, though that brewing is a bit too similar to chem/medbay's job (don't get me wrong, I love the flavor.) I think I like the sound of incense more (and censers, woo!). 

Anything that gives the chaplain something to do all round is great, so I'd love to see the chaplain be able to make interesting incenses to help the station. What if incense gave niche AOE effects (like the interdictor)? Stuff like cleaning-over-time AOE, oxygen producing candle (these are real!), AOE that makes plants need to be watered less. These idea might suck, but you get the gist!

(im incredibly tired so i hope this post makes sense)

[Dhaidburt]

I really like the flavor idea of giving chaplains the ability to make special booze! Only recently learned that apparently they made beer during a religious fast because 'its just bread water'. I also don't think it needs much mechanical purpose beyond getting smashed, we all know the stereotypes for botany and normal weed barely has any mechanical upsides.

I will note that each of these ideas has you directly interacting with botany in some shape or form, which is great on maps like Cog1 but an absolute pain on maps like Kondaru

[Glamurio]

I like censers a lot (especially if you can use them as a makeshift flail) but it feels weird to have herbalism as a whole tied to the chaplain, who is neither the dedicated Plant Guy nor the dedicated Healing Guy. if something like it is implemented I'd much prefer it to be something any weirdo with a dream can do if they buy the equipment from cargo or something.

though, in general, in-depth poultice making and handcrafted alcohol brewing feel like exceptionally strange fits for the cartoon sci-fi setting of ss13, honestly?? if you want to play a game with mechanics like that there's a couple of mods for the game vintage story that'll be right up your alley

The idea I was flowing with here that, yes, chaplain isn't the dedicated "anything guy". Mostly does his own thing unless asked upon in rare situations, and half the shifts don't have a chaplain because they just don't have much to do. Introducing systems that are existent, but never the perfect solution (maybe even with drawbacks) are, in my mind the best way to take chaplains.

With how silly and coofy and "low-fi sci-fi" many parts of SS13 are, I'd argue it wouldn't look too out of place, particularly if it's in a chapel, which is oftentimes the least Sci-Fi part of the entire station, often having wooden floors and benches.

I've played Vintage Story, good game, though this is less about what I want to do and more about making the chaplain more fleshed out mechanically. If that comes in the form of these changes, that's secondary, you are free to suggest alternatives of course.

I love new stuff for chaplain. I do worry, though that brewing is a bit too similar to chem/medbay's job (don't get me wrong, I love the flavor.) I think I like the sound of incense more (and censers, woo!). 

Anything that gives the chaplain something to do all round is great, so I'd love to see the chaplain be able to make interesting incenses to help the station. What if incense gave niche AOE effects (like the interdictor)? Stuff like cleaning-over-time AOE, oxygen producing candle (these are real!), AOE that makes plants need to be watered less. These idea might suck, but you get the gist!

(im incredibly tired so i hope this post makes sense)

Brewing, if anything, would step on the toes of botany or barkeeper more than Science/Medbay, but the worry is warranted to a degree.

Censers are cool, but my main concern is that, while they are a neat new tool for the chaplain to use, they don't really strike me as a new mechanic. Save for what kind of chem you put in censers, it doesn't really give the chaplain more to do, it just makes him to the same things as before, but now he's waving a censer around. Don't get me wrong, the idea is cool, I did list it for that reason and I want to implement, I just think chaplain needs more than censers.

I really like the flavor idea of giving chaplains the ability to make special booze! Only recently learned that apparently they made beer during a religious fast because 'its just bread water'. I also don't think it needs much mechanical purpose beyond getting smashed, we all know the stereotypes for botany and normal weed barely has any mechanical upsides.

I will note that each of these ideas has you directly interacting with botany in some shape or form, which is great on maps like Cog1 but an absolute pain on maps like Kondaru

The religious traditions of brewing alcohol, be it beer, ale, mead or wine, go back centuries and are very iconic. I'm 100% with you that even if it doesn't produce anything new and mainly serves as a way of getting hammered, it still gives a new mechanic for chaplains to interact with.

I don't think getting the right herbs will be the biggest problem, but on that note, I was working on a Botanty-Kitchen dispensary link, which was almost done. Ultimately would be easy to place this in more accessible locations for the chaplain.

[FlyzerMizer]

While I like the idea of giving chap something new to do, what’s stopping this system from being abused by nerds and such? I don’t like the idea of turning chaplain into more of a validhunting role then it already is, granted chaplains only one thing (atleast in classic) is to essentially be a validhunter (you may say for only vamps, wizards, or wraiths, but they already get tons of super gamer gear that can deal with any antag). Also the chaplain already gets a very good healing item that can outheal space damage and it’s one downside can be negated by some holy water or mannitol. While a cool idea I just don’t see how it will stop nerds from abusing it (atleast on classic)

[Meggal Bozale]

I would like the idea of restricting holy water synthesis to being a 'chaplain thing', especially with it being an easily accessible instant cure to plague wraith curses, which makes plague wraith quite a bit weaker if anyone has the braincells to make a little bit of it. Brewing it with tea leaves or whatever and smacking it with the bible + requiring chaplain training. Something like that

[Cal]

Does not make sense for the chaplain to be brewing potions when the bartender and botany exist

[Decarcassor]

Herbal medicine and brewing are already existing mechanics within botany & bartending that don't get tons of use simply because medbay and alcohool dispenser are more convenient in 99% of cases.

It would be nice if there was more incentive to seek naturopathy and home made booze, but I don't think it shoud be a chaplain thing.

[Glamurio]

While I like the idea of giving chap something new to do, what’s stopping this system from being abused by nerds and such? I don’t like the idea of turning chaplain into more of a validhunting role then it already is, granted chaplains only one thing (atleast in classic) is to essentially be a validhunter (you may say for only vamps, wizards, or wraiths, but they already get tons of super gamer gear that can deal with any antag). Also the chaplain already gets a very good healing item that can outheal space damage and it’s one downside can be negated by some holy water or mannitol. While a cool idea I just don’t see how it will stop nerds from abusing it (atleast on classic)

What's stopping any system to be abused by nerds? You can't come up with new mechanics without also introducing the concept of some people taking it too far. Values or results can be tweaked reactionary, and the system is meant to be less effective than chemistry, so I don't think it's a major concern.

Does not make sense for the chaplain to be brewing potions when the bartender and botany exist

Does not really make sense for Medbay to be creating their own medicine when Chemistry exists, and yet it was added likely partially because of QoL and because doctors have downtime between patients. Two departments overlapping (minorly, might I add) in some mechanics, particularly one that's exclusive to a single person who might not even be around is not a good reason not to introduce a mechanic because it shares surface-level similarities, imo

Herbal medicine and brewing are already existing mechanics within botany & bartending that don't get tons of use simply because medbay and alcohool dispenser are more convenient in 99% of cases.

It would be nice if there was more incentive to seek naturopathy and home made booze, but I don't think it shoud be a chaplain thing.

They're not, though. Herbal medicine isn't really explored, that's precisely what this suggestion would do. I wouldn't mind if we give some similar tools to botany because there's a thematic overlap. And frankly, maybe this is more of a statement on the state of dispensers in the game which trivialize aspects of the game for very little benefit, Medbay in particularly is so stocked full of medicine that they hardly even need to touch the dispenser, let alone ask botany.

I'll accept though that you think it shouldn't be a chaplain thing, arguably there's some reach when it comes to coming up with mechanics for the role, but the entire point of the suggestion was to target systems in the game which are underutilized and fitting to a chaplain role, because that's currently a role that has very little to do in any given round save for unreliable emergencies that occur.

[Cal]

Does not make sense for the chaplain to be brewing potions when the bartender and botany exist

Does not really make sense for Medbay to be creating their own medicine when Chemistry exists, and yet it was added likely partially because of QoL and because doctors have downtime between patients.

I mean, i'd be fine with the pharmacy being removed (and actively say it should be) but I'd like something tangible to replace it because it doesn't feel right removing something without adding something.

[Kotlol]

Does not make sense for the chaplain to be brewing potions when the bartender and botany exist

Does not really make sense for Medbay to be creating their own medicine when Chemistry exists, and yet it was added likely partially because of QoL and because doctors have downtime between patients.

I mean, i'd be fine with the pharmacy being removed (and actively say it should be) but I'd like something tangible to replace it because it doesn't feel right removing something without adding something.

Pharmacy should stay technically, but not in the state it is in now.
In my opinion Pharmacy should be giving you medicine and where the medicine should be stored.

You can keep them in the dispensers sure, but maybe it would be nicer to have all kinds of small pills ready in the pharmacy for treatments people can just pick up.

That or... maybe change all pharmacies into "Pustule" farms.. since that's the current trend.