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Remove the ability to recall the shuttle with packets
#1
Packets on a wired network can be used to call and recall the shuttle. On paper this is a fine idea, especially the ability to call the shuttle, however in practice being able to recall the shuttle is a useless function that gives way to grief and prolonging rounds that dont need to be prolonged. That being said I dont see much any reason to allow shuttle recalls with packets.

Starting off the ability to call the shuttle with packets is by all means great and I think its a feature that should stay in the game. Having the power to call the shuttle when the heads are dead or the commasters are gone is great design as it allows the crew to call the shuttle still on the chance that all else fails. Not only that this isn't something that can be easily abused namely because there is very little reason for a antag to call the shuttle and make their round shorter outside of grief.

Now moving on to the main issue, the ability to recall the shuttle with packets has little reason to exist gameplay wise outside of grief. Anyone who knows their way around packets can easily make a auto shuttle recaller which recalls the shuttle the second it gets called. Now although antags recalling the shuttle normally via commaster is thought of as lame it works because the commaster unit is in a fixed place. This means the commaster can be defended by the crew and potentially become a point of a final showdown which usually has a fun result (unless the antag wins and KEEPS recalling the shuttle but in such a hopeless case this is where being able to call the shuttle with packets shine). However auto recallers can be done with a more or less any dwaine terminal which can be set up very easily and in a number of places. The first issue is that auto recallers are very hard to counter seeing as the main counter would be to find the dwaine terminal its set up on. The second issue with this is that finding said dwaine terminal is like finding a needle in a haystack, especially if the station is already fucked up. Something to keep in mind is that there is little reason a non-antag would use this method to recall the shuttle, i.e if the the station is in bad enough shape to where it can't be recalled with a commaster it likely shouldn't be recalled (assuming there is no grief involved). There's also little reason a antag should use this method as it inherently leads to little crew interaction and often leads to less fun for everyone. This all leads to situations in which the shuttle will be recalled for well over 20+ mins (if not longer) prolonging rounds that likely don't need to be prolong and leading to very unfun situations. This is all to say that nothing positive comes from recalling the shuttle with packets 99% of the time so why have it.

As a example there was a round on goon 1 in which a auto recaller was used. The station was ruin by the 40 min mark due to AI blowing out lights, 2 plasma fires, and a singloose. The shuttle was originally called around the 45-50 min mark shortly after which the auto recaller started. This lead to the round going on for another 30-40 mins on a station that was already beyond ruin with many already dead. the final round time was 96 mins which could have easily been 2 goon 1 rounds but instead it was one goon round with about 40 mins of nothing happening as the shuttle got recalled over and over.

Anyways what are your guys thought on the matter?
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#2
Yes I agree, there is far too much potential for abuse.
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#3
Yes please, this is one of the reasons I loathe packet nerds
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#4
I loathe packet nerds with a passion to a degree, since it's really hard to track em since you need to be a packet nerd yourself.

I do not mind them as much since they are rare, but I think packeting needs to be "slightly" more "intuative" as well as terminals (bothOS's)
And for some we actually do have better interfaces already.
For example... I avoid SecMate like the plague as a security player, cause the detective's office/Goggles have a better interface where I can see the picture and click on a screen. Let alone I am much faster on that terminal then that of SecMate.

Arti-sci is my favorite Sci and guess what I use mostly? The Science Doohickey system over DWAINE terminal.

If anything the older clunkier design needs to be replaced with a more friendlier system. BUT not removed... the older system should be something the more IT savey players should strife for and can do more. The UI specialized ones can be there but you cannot modify it.
It would help Medical, Science and Security to be more effecient but have the "older system" still accessiable for those who want to use it or you know work on it.

Anyway side tangent aside... packeting is annoying, but I do not hate it if it's used for doors and such. It's kinda clever actually and I applaud people who find ways to NOT abuse it. (Those who do... you are basically more annoying then someone slapping things with Emags.)
And I think shuttle call should be BLOCKED FROM IT.
After all.... only heads should be able to call it/uncall it.
"But what if all the heads are dead and the AI is rogued?"
Then try to find the cap's spare or any ID that can give you acces?
"But it's not there!"
Then you are SoL. I am sorry... but then the antagonists did their job perfectly.
"But the round won't end!"
Now this is so specific.. AHELP it.

Anyway... just remove it from packets.
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#5
Friendly reminder that spamming shuttle recalls, either manually or automatically, is *specifically* disallowed in the rules page and should be ahelped, even if it's done by an antag.

Quote:Don't prolong the round unnecessarily. If it seems like most other people want the round to end and/or you have killed most other people as an antagonist you should not try to make the round go on forever. That means that repeated recalling of the shuttle, building automatic shuttle-recall machines and not calling the shuttle after you kill everyone else on the server are frowned upon.


But I think I agree, it would be good if the shuttle recall packet was "encrypted" and could only be generated by COMMaster
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#6
My hatred for packet nerds are even more than my hatred for genetic nerds that just sit in their chairs all round.
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#7
(08-09-2023, 06:37 AM)Garash Wrote: Friendly reminder that spamming shuttle recalls, either manually or automatically, is *specifically* disallowed in the rules page and should be ahelped, even if it's done by an antag.

Quote:Don't prolong the round unnecessarily. If it seems like most other people want the round to end and/or you have killed most other people as an antagonist you should not try to make the round go on forever. That means that repeated recalling of the shuttle, building automatic shuttle-recall machines and not calling the shuttle after you kill everyone else on the server are frowned upon.


But I think I agree, it would be good if the shuttle recall packet was "encrypted" and could only be generated by COMMaster
I think people not ahelping it boils down to them not knowing who it is and players don't know if there is a way for admins to know who set up the packeting in the first place, or they reason that someone else has reported it, which loops around to nobody reporting it
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#8
It also feels like it could be an "admin interfering" then "Packet nerding"
With the right amount of packet nerding, it might look like an admin done it.

Let alone not knowing if it was packeting doesn't help.
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#9
My take is that if a specific mechanic is only used mostly in a rule breaking way, and removing said mechanic has none/basically none negative consequences, then yeah it should be removed. I think this mechanic falls under that
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#10
i like the idea of being able to use packets as a latch ditch effort to call/recall. i'd say keep it but add a steep cooldown for it so it cant be spammed
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#11
(08-13-2023, 04:34 PM)babayetu83 Wrote: i like the idea of being able to use packets as a latch ditch effort to call/recall. i'd say keep it but add a steep cooldown for it so it cant be spammed

If you want it as a last ditch effort.. then have it be traceable / high risk as well. If the packet nerd really does this... it will litterly say: "Recieved Packet from XYZ"
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#12
As someone who was on during a Packet Recall Looper

Yes. Please. This was pretty obnoxious and turned the now extended round into "Prop Hunt"
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#13
First: The only thing COMMaster really does is: Generate a packet.
Yes, shuttle calls/recalls are done using packets. Even if you don't notice it.
THAT is the reason why you can use packets to call/recall the shuttle.
If you remove that, you can't call or recall the shuttle.

The packet already has an authentication parameter, the netpass, which is round specific.
The problem is, sniffing that netpass is too easy - afaik guardbuddy controls use the same token.
(And in the past, you could unlock lockers with it, which was nerfed and now requires the security netpass.)

While you can guard the bridge (and by extension Captian's office), where COMMaster is preinstalled, COMMaster can be used on any computer with wired network access. COMMaster Disks can either be bought, found on the bridge (the auth-disk also has commaster on it)...

IMHO, making automatic recall machines should be AHELPed. (Btw, admins can disable shuttle recalls.)
But for me it is a different story if someone has to press a button to send the packet.

A different option might be to cycle the netpass after some time, or uses.
And maybe don't reuse the same token for GuardBuddies.
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#14
I think generating a special netpass for only the commaster would go great lenghts.

Or make it encrypted, like currently the detomax cartridge (pda-blowup program) makes itself extremely hard to impossible to access.
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#15
After looking at the code, it’s quicker and easier to cap the number of recalls per round at 5. Packet nerds can still delay a little bit, but they can’t unilaterally extend the round forever.
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